Phb Ii

[Ranes]

Okay, as I understand it, and of course I could be wrong, the DMG2 doesn't take much from any particular book and it contains a lot of new stuff. Thus, it doesn't significantly devalue the work from which reprinted material has been borrowed and it has inherent value in terms of new material. But from the discussion on this thread, I got the impression that the PHB2 imagined by folks here would primarily be a collation of work that appears elsewhere, which is the kind of PHB2 that I don't think would be a good idea for WotC.

That was my impression. If a PHB2 reprints little and contains a lot of new material, then there's a stronger case for publishing it. But I still think it would compete with the other books already available for players.

 

[Li Shenron]

If a PHBII was all "recycled material" it would cost much less in design to WotC, and they would probably gain enough even from smaller sales. There are two categories of people who would buy it anyway: completists (who even bought the PHB Special Ed. "just because") and those who didn't want to buy 4 entire complete books.

BTW, this winter they're going to release the Spell Compendium, which will make a precedent of largely reprinted material, and I am sure that enough people will buy it anyway.

 

[Ranes]

All true, though the number of sources of material to be compiled into the Spell Compendium would be much larger than the number of sources for a PHB2, I suspect.

I accept the argument for making material available to players in more than one form. I'm not against that. For example, I'm not interested in the Miniatures Handbook and the XPH is low on my list of wants, but my copy of Races of Stone contains the rules for swift and immediate actions from those books. Great! I'll use those rules. And if I did have the other books, I wouldn't begrudge the third of a page their re-appearance takes up in RoS. I suppose when it gets down to it, I'm just not convinced that a 'Best Of...' approach to a PHB2 that plunders the Complete series for most of its material is the best way to go for a book called PHB2.

 

[JoeBlank]

I would probably buy a PHB II that contained only reprinted material from the complete books and elsewhere. I gave up buying everything WOTC printed for 3.5 over a year ago, so I don't have all of the Complete books. And even with the books I do have, WOTC and otherwise, it gets to be a chore looking through a stack of books to create a character, or even select feats and spells when an existing character levels.

In fact, I'd even go for the idea someone mentioned of a Complete Book of Spells. In fact, I might like that even more than a PHB II. So many of the new books have a few pages of spells, some of them very good, but again you have to flip through a pile of books to dig them out. It would be nice to grab a book of only spells if spells were all I needed at the time.

 

[philreed]

So, it is a safe assumption that whatever WotC put out with the D&D label will be bought? I find that hard to believe, considering that the only way to make money is to give money -- invest -- in a development project.

No. I think it is a safe assumption that a book titled PHB II will get looked at and purchased more often then a book titled Complete Warrior or whatever. The name and association with the PHB implies that it's a necessary core book. Just like the DMG II is likely getting much better sales than if it was titled DM's Tools or something.

And at this stage I'm talking about distributor and retailer sales -- which are vital to a product being considered "hot." Most of the products that sell very well are those that distributors and retailers order a lot of copies of. It's a cycle in which the customer's perception of what is hot and a vital product is heavily influenced by things like the press release linked to above and how many copies of the book are sitting in the game store.

Example: Unearthed Arcana, I'm sure, had decent sales. The local store had a nice little display of 12 or so copies when the book was released. I'm guessing that when I go into the store this Friday their DMG II display will be 30-40 copies. Why? Because the title implies that it's a core book and the retailer remembers how well the previous core books sold on release.

 

[DaveMage]

Phil: So, if I'm reading you correctly, you are looking at the PHB II purely from an economic viewpoint rather than a design one.

I dunno...

I think the DMG II fills in some gaps left by the DMG. I'm not sure there are any such gaps left with the PHB. Certainly there are things that could be improved in a new edition (spellcaster multiclassing for one), but I'm just not seeing anything "core" that we don't already have that could fill 288+ pages.

But that does bring up an interesting point - each year for the last 3 years we've had a big "signature" product that (is supposed to) outperform the others. In 2003 it was v3.5. In 2004 it was Eberron. This year it's the DMG II. What will next year bring?

 

[JoeGKushner]

Neb,


You are so right. Money drives everything. If its a bestseller, people want a sequel (especially the publishers). If it's a smash hit, bring on more! The RPG biz is not about what's great or good for the industry, it's what sells now and in the future.

Sounds like sound business to me. Heck, even the smaller publishers have sequels to their better selling products no? How many 101 books has Phil had? Had many Necromancer books have little ties to books in their other series? How many Creature Collection books came out? It's all about the sales, but that doesn't mean there can't be high quality stuff in 'em.

 

[TerraDave]

Why PHBII, when it could be PHB 3.75...

In terms of advice, ect, they have D&D for Dummies...(and it is a natural PHB companion for the new player)

 

[Mercule]

People buy things available in other formats all the time for the sake of convenience. The truth is, the number of people who buy all the WotC products is pretty small. A "Best of" player's book would have a wide audience among all the rest of the people.

One of my players bought Complete Arcane. One bought Arms and Equipment. Other than that, it's just Core books for them, with only one having the DMG and MM because he's also the alternate GM. If a PHB 2 came out that included at least the non-oriental base classes, cherry-picked the better/more interesting feats, and included the more fun spells -- all from just the Complete... series (with, maybe, the Artificer thrown in, too) -- I'd strongly encourage all my players to pick it up. And I imagine they would. I can almost guarantee two sales from people who'll probably never buy any more Complete... books.

 

[jmucchiello]

What they need to do if they make it is create point buy classes so people can constuct their own.
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These two ideas don't go together.

My own Character Customization has such a class creation system (and I will update it 3.5 eventually). Sigil's Buy the Numbers throws out the class completely. What makes it better if WotC makes it?

Look 'em up on RPGNow.