Phb Ii

[Ace]

So this makes me think:

"The Dungeon Master’s Guide™ II comes out this month, and distributor orders for this book have been tremendous."

If distributor orders are really that good how much planning has already been put into a PHB II? I'd think that planning and discussions are already well underway for a 2006 summer release -- especially if there is no 4e planned for the next few years. After all, why leave money on the table?


(From Ogrecave)

I suspect you are right. Heck I know I would buy one, I love varient players handbooks and an "officail" one withe the WOTC stamp of approval would make it easy to play stuff from it in many campaigns.

There are a lot of DM's (at least in my aprt of So-Cal who say "WOTC" only or very commonly "WOTC and the X numberof pubslishers I favor in my house rules only"

 

[Li Shenron]

3) a bard who gains barbarian rage by smashing his guitar

"By sacrificing a musical instrument of at least masterwork quality, the Bard gains a +20 circumstance bonus on all Charisma checks and Charisma-based skills, and a +4 DC bonus on all mind-affecting spells or spells of the enchantment schools, for one minute. The bonuses work only when used against creatures with Intelligence score 6 or lower, halflings, or teenagers of any race. This is a supernatural ability."

 

[boredgremlin]

So, it is a safe assumption that whatever WotC put out with the D&D label will be bought? I find that hard to believe, considering that the only way to make money is to give money -- invest -- in a development project.

And perhaps I'm the more ... what's a better word than "sane"? ... pragmatic person here (though there are a few of us out there), but I don't see how a PHB II would benefit us and therefore line WotC's pockets and wallets.

Lol you think something has to be usefull to be bought? Just look at the enviromental books. Very few campaigns are set solely in one enviroment and even the ones that are did just fine before those books. I ran a campaign based on a northern tundra enviroment with complete accuracy 6 years before frostburn came out. How? I got online and looked at national geographic for arctic enviroments, read everything they had and added onto the rules where absolutely neccesary. Oddly not much had to change. Just my random monster tables and some of the rules for exposer had to be made more severe. Did i need to spend 40$ on another book? Hell no. I flipped throught that book. Not a single usefull idea. I am running a semi arctic campiagn now and i still didnt see one thing worth using.

Did people spend money on frostburn? Hella. Thats why they made more. The whole book was a few items that will never be used, a few PrC's that suck, a couple of rehashed monsters from 2e and a few spells.

A lot of people buy new books just to save themselves the effort. I think that DM's buy most of the books, players buy a few if they see something they want to use in one. And most of them are bought by people who thought it looked neat and didnt really page through it.

Players handbook 2. Will they make it? Yes. Will people buy it? Yes. Will it be even remotely neccesary? No.
They will rehash old spells from older editions and other books, they will reprint classes, equipment, and probably PrC's from other books. They will give us 50 more feats that add +2 to this skill and +2 to that skill, when we could easily let a player take a feat and add +2 to any 2 skills of thier choice, making all those feats useless. They will reprint some of the spells from books we have allready bought, but not enough of those spells to make us not have to flip through 10 books looking for a specific spell because we want something new.

Will you need the PHB2? No, not at all. It wont even make your life any easier. It will no doudt have some broken class, and probably a broken PrC. Just to make your life harder. Will you buy it? Maybe. Will some tool in your group buy it so you have to deal with the consequences? Hell yes. Live it, learn it, love it. WOTC hates DM's. They have done thier best to make use non essential, and when that failed they have tried all the tricks up thier sleaves to make our lives harder. And they will do it again with a players handbook 2.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

Someone needs a hug.

 

[philreed]

It'll be in hardcover, full color format for 3.5?

I thought gamers were complaining about color hardcovers pushing up the price of books?

This is part of the reason publishing books can be frustrating; for every gamer that screams foul at a color hardcover there's another crying about perfect-bound, B&W books.

 

[Gez]

Players Handbook II?

Simple, here's how it could go down:
Races: Warforged, Changelings, Goliaths, Ilumians. Some others from the Races books and Eberron.

Raptorans and Shifters. Maybe Kalashtars, too, but they have a lot of baggage, I'd rather take the Maenad and/or Xeph from the EPH instead.

Classes: Well gee, you've got 8 new core classes from the Complete series

12, actually. Three per books, four books. Of course, you may consider that Favored Soul, Warmage, Wu Jen, and Shugenja weren't new, but they're still not from the PHB, and I see no reason to exclude them, Warmages rock.

and 2 from Eberron, that's 10, almost as much as PHB I.

Only one, the other being a NPC class.

Marshall or Healer from Minis Handbook and you've got as many.

Both, and you get to 15. (And BTW, the OA Sohei and Shaman are nice classes, too. 17)

Heck, throw in the DLCS Mystic and Noble and you've got more than the PHB! "Most Players Handbooks only go up to 11, ours goes up to 12!"

19

To get a nice, round number of 20, bring in a whole new class. I think a true "Sage" class would be useful, let say a wizard with 6 skill points (skill list would include all Knowledges, Speak Language, Decipher Script, Heal, and Sense Motive), a slowed spellcasting progression (same spells per day table as the bard), lore, and some bonus feats (any feat they qualify for).

 

[boredgremlin]

lol i get many hugs. When my players leave to go home every week. I run a 2e game. We use a few 3e rules. Whats the difference you ask? The DM runs the show. Sometimes we fight the whole game, sometimes we RP the whole game. I dont brook rules lawyers. There is a story to play. Players want to do some crazy stuff? Great, makes me a better DM to adapt to thier crazy ideas.

The big difference is that 3e tried to make a rule for every idea. They tried thier best to take away rule 0. But thats what makes the game worth playing with a good DM. Say i took an idea from a steven king book, is it in the rules? Probably not, does it take human pyschychology to make players feel alive, in the world and scared? Hell yes. So i alter rules to make that feel come alive.

My players know rules are optional, we are using some of the grim and gritties with some 2e and 3e stuff right now. With some sword and sorcery studios stuff and a whole lotta homebrew. Do my players bitch? No. I tell a grand story, i give em clues, let them roleplay, set a living world for players to interact with.

3e tried to take that away. They gave all the players rules that they said the DM's had to abide by. Personally i dont give a crap about the rules. Players do all kinds of crazy stuff, if they roleplay i dont even require skill checks. Diplomacy? it. If we have a good exchange, character to NPC you will never roll it. I hated how 3e made roleplaying something you could roll with a D20 instead of doing.

For me and my group gaming isnt a game like football or monopoly with rules that must be followed. Gaming is a social event, mixed with a story tellers hour.

In my experiance DM's number one rule is this... Your the script writer for mad TV. Its a live action, highly ad libbed set up. The DM sets the stage, lets the players go crazy and handles all the NPC's who have to deal with it.

Really whats more satifying? Getting a bunch of experiance points, or doing something good for a town, then having your bard or rogue, or other high diplomacy (bluff) character tell the story up. Weeks later the players hear thier own story being sung or told by an NPC. Did they get an EXP bonus (probably) but are they alive, in thier world with people they have never met knowing who they are? Yes. Give your players EXP one week, next week have them hear a great story, with embellishments about what they did in a bar. Have people walk up and shake thier hand, NPC's ask them goofy questions about how it was to kill such and such evil beast. Just watch thier eyes while you do it. You will see what played better, touched the players more. Good storytelling wins everytime.

3e tried to steal our spotlight with rules and CR's. Dont let it. Tell a grand story, leave the world alive around your players. Watch what makes them talk about the game more between sessions. 3e's DM light RAW or a great story. DM's should be story tellers. If your players arent leaning in and asking questions in character without meaning to at least once per session you have failed.

 

[wingsandsword]

The big difference is that 3e tried to make a rule for every idea. They tried thier best to take away rule 0.

I disagree, 3e has just one rule: Roll a d20, add modifiers, roll over a target. Most rules in 3e are just restatements of that basic idea.

What 3e did was clear out the huge morass of inconsistent rules for everything from prior editions. Roll 1d6 to see if you spot that secret door, elves do it on a suchandsuch, but humans only on a suchandsuch, but rangers get another suchandsuch. Thief skills on percent, but nonweapon proficiencies and ability checks on a d20 and roll low, roll high for saves and attack rolls on a d20, and any one of many ways of rolling for initative.

I don't see 3e as rules heavy at heart. It has a lot of details for if you need them, but I've found that a creative DM and players who are willing to play along can get along when there is any rules question with a simple little checklist:

1. Is the action possible at all? If yes then continue:
2. Is this a saving throw, skill check, ability check or attack roll?
3. What type of save, skill, ability or attack is this?
4. What is the difficulty of this check/roll (or should it be opposed by something else).
5. Roll it, compare, determine success or failure.

The huge majority of little rules details in 3e are different explanations of that one concept. Learn it, live it, love it and you'll find that 3e fits like a glove.

 

[Ranes]

Anthropomorphise all you like. 3e doesn't 'try' to do anything.

Your assertion that DMs ought to be story tellers is highly subjective. DMs should be referees is an equally valid, if no less subjective view.

Back on topic, the MM2 is mostly stuff that hadn't appeared elsewhere. The DMG2 is (apparently) mostly stuff that hasn't appeared elsewhere. To make a book called PHB2 that is mostly stuff that has appeared elsewhere, seems to me to be making a product that doesn't quite stack up against those with which it would be most closely associated and, for that reason alone, I think such a book would be a bad idea. If, on the other hand, you make a PHB2 mostly new stuff, it competes with UA and Complete X, so it's still a bad idea. My plea to WotC would be: Repackage player material, sure; just don't call it PHB2.

 

[boredgremlin]

See the problem is that half of the WoTC classes and prestige classes, as well as feats and spells totally contradict with whats in the PHB. Both whats spelled out in lettering and whats implied. This leaves the DM in the uncomfortable position of which RAW he follows. And then both pretty much leave him useless, opening up endless arguments.

Your way better off telling your players "dont bring your books, i dont give a crap what they say, we are here to play a game and tell a story. Deal with it. Rules lawyers, munchkins, people unwilling to experiment, there is the door. Dont let it hit your ass on the way out."

Let the remaining players be part of your story and game. To hell with the rest. Life is too short. Players are in heavy supply, DM's in short. Never forget that your the commodity, not them. Play your game, let them be part of it.