PHB2 general feats review (heroic tier)

[Doctor Proctor]

I think that's kind of a spurious argument. 4e's PHB2 is no more "core" than 3e's PHB2 in the way you're describing.

I was responding specifically to TheLordWinter's comment of:

Once upon a time during 3rd edition, after playing with numerous ridiculous source books and in the thick of the edition, I decided I wanted to understand it a bit better by just playing a core game with my friends.

I was just saying that there's a big difference between the PHB 2 and the "numerous" splat books he was talking about. We're just starting this edition, not in the thick of it when there's been 20 splatbooks released. Essentially, most of the player options right now consist of PHB 1 and 2, Martial Power and the Forgotten Realms Players Guide. That's 4 books, plus whatever DDI content people want to bring in (although again, while it's technically core, I can understand being more wary of that than the actual books).

 

[Nail]

Once upon a time during 3rd edition, after playing with numerous ridiculous source books and in the thick of the edition, I decided I wanted to understand it a bit better by just playing a core game with my friends. Foremost they were livid at the very suggestion, and were adamant that we not do it. It ended with them saying they'd rather not play than play in just core.

So with that perspective in mind, banning now makes perfect sense to me.

I'm not at all clear how the second paragraph follows from the first.

Huh?

When you tried to ban things, your (potential) players rebelled....so now you think banning is a good idea?

 

[Danceofmasks]

Maybe people don't mind not having stuff ... 'cos there's lots of stuff they can't have.
But they don't like stuff they already have get taken away.

 

[UltimaGabe]

Distant Advantage
You gain combat advantage against flanked enemies at a range (your allies can flank for you).

There's a problem with this feat that nobody seems to be noticing yet: It makes it easier to flank with a ranged weapon than with a melee weapon.

Now, I understand the feat. You can't actually flank at range with this feat- but you DO gain combat advantage against a flanked foe, no matter where you are in regards to the enemy and your allies. If you were in melee, however, if your enemy is medium-sized, and two allies are on opposite sides of the enemy, it's going to be impossible for you to flank without another ally. And yet the ranger can be sitting in the back getting CA all he wants.

Anyone else notice this?

 

[Obryn]

Melee Training - I only this for DEX (and obviously the swordmage's specific one is still in).

Can you elaborate why? Is it mostly for flavor? Kind of an homage to Weapon Finesse?

Personally, I like the feat. I look at it in one of two ways - either (say) a Paladin has trained enough with his attacks to become as competent with basic attacks as he is with smites; or else he's learned to enhance his basic attacks with divine energy, to make them more powerful.

Surging Flame - I don't mind this that much, but what gets me is that the other damage types don't have one like it.

I don't know that it would be a good feat for any other element type... Fire is the most common resistance, other than necrotic. So, (1) fire specialists need this feat more than other elemental specialists need a similar feat; and (2) it's less likely to be a wasted feat for fire specialists, since they can reasonably expect to run into a fire-resistant creature.

-O

 

[Cadfan]

So with that perspective in mind, banning now makes perfect sense to me. If later on something seems fine? Let it back in.

Won't happen. There will never be a "later on" when something "seems fine" if you've banned the material.

Unless your game consists of a heavy side game of players coming to you to petition you to reallow the things you ban.

 

[lkjopajdowma]

Coordinated Explosion - this is meant as a way help out when you HAVE to blast allies in order to hit the target. You can't always (or at least don't have the time) to move everyone into position before you AoE them. This is meant as a bit of a help to that.

Yeah, it helps you hitting the enemies in this situation, but it also gives you a better chance to hit your allies. It's great for classes that have a lot of bursts and blasts that help/don't affect allies, but for a wizard it's a bit iffy.

...

I'm about to start DMing my first 4e game in a few weeks, and I don't see any reason to ban or disallow anything in here. Even the Expertise feats...but my group is a little different. Hell, I didn't even give Implement Expertise a second thought when I was reading through them...a +1 doesn't seem that big to me, but only being on one side fo the screen so far I could be wrong. Honestly, though, (and I'm aware my group is an exception) I would be surprised if more than one of my players took the expertise feats.

 

[Nightson]

And, by definition, if it's not essential, you don't lose anything if you get rid of it.

I do not concur.

 

[Nail]

Well, there's two differences here. The Player's Handbook 2 is not just "another splatbook", it is a core book. Technically Martial Power is too, but it's more of an outlier than the PHB 2.

I think that's kind of a spurious argument. 4e's PHB2 is no more "core" than 3e's PHB2 in the way you're describing.

I was just saying that there's a big difference between the PHB 2 and the "numerous" splat books he was talking about. We're just starting this edition, not in the thick of it when there's been 20 splatbooks released.

No, I think Obryn has the right of it.

4e no longer has the "core" concept. There is no real "core" anymore - it was a poor marketing decision by WotC in 3e. Now there are just Numbered versions of the PH (and MM, and DMG, I'll bet).

So saying that "PH2 isn't core, and so may be freely banned" (or saying the opposite), isn't a compelling argument.

 

[Dragonblade]

Many RPG systems I have played over the years, including 3e have been poorly balanced and really expected the DM to act as an arbiter of balance in their games. This is not the case in 4e.

I am playing in three different 4e games. All WotC material is allowed and we have seen no balance issues with anything.

There frankly is no need to ban anything unless you are specifically excluding something for flavor reasons. Such as your homebrew world not having tieflings or something.