PHB2 Races = Mos Eisley Cantina

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I only run fantasy games (with the exception of star wars, and Dark Sun) with races based on myth and history, though I have always allowed tieflings, assimar, and genasi. Pretty much Tolkein races from 1st edition with the Forgotten realms added in.

Sounds like you include a bunch of races with very little basis in myth.
Genasi are just a game designers idea of cool. I think you fib or have already made so many exceptions... you lost track.

Halflings originally Hobits were a single writers whole cloth conversion of the English country folk (with little else to inspire).. to his own idea of a "little people" very different from just about every other little people myth completely non magical.

Your definition of myth excludes the Egyptian guy with the crocodile like head (note the ancient Egyptian Gods were not vague and removed from the world they once supposed ruled Egypt... he would make a perfect example of a mythic dragonborn. Their are asian cultures where a majority of there leaders purport to be the descendents of elemental dragons. Push that back far enough and you have Dragonborn. I saw a 4e setting somebody made with Dragonborn in exactly that role (they did a polymorphic shape shift to use there racial powers... but otherwise appeared human.)

In general I think actually myth is a much bigger place than you realize... we humans are imaginative creatures and have been doing this stuff a long time.
 

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So, an Eldrin, an Elf, and a Drow walk into a bar...

Here's the thing: somewhere in 3rd edition it somehow got implied that you could play just about any monster as a race that you could, or maybe more generally stated, anything the DM could do, the PC could do too. And this got really carried away: from an evil party campaigns to stats on Bane and Sune to Tomes detailing how might a halfling - gnome sex scene could play out for experience points, it either happened or you saw it on the internet, and possibly for sale.

I think to an extend, 4th edition is falling into the same problem by allowing more and more choices for races, with the implication that if it's in the book, it's allowable. The first player's book was the basic of the basics. The second player's book expands on this by taking races that they felt weren't absolutely necessary and put them into this book. The third book will probably be about psionics, which probably means that 3rd edition stand-bys like half-giants and elans (my favorite race) will be revamped for 4th edition.

I'm not saying this is a bad thing, but I am saying it's a slippery slope that will continue to happen every year they include a new edition with new races and classes. Furthermore, this does mean we'll have new options once a year to add? What's to say that Wizards will stop after Player Handbook 3?
 

Playing a non-human race purely for the appearance actually has a use that cannot ever be fulfilled by a human of any kind: a different physiological perspective. You play a race with good senses so you can think about having a wider view of the world, you play a race stronger than a human so you can imagine their ability to move objects with ease.

Cat's got a good point. And I'm actually gonna try and be serious for a moment here.

If someone has already mentioned some of these ideas then excuse me. I've been pressed for time lately and haven't had much time to read other than late at night.

I don't care much for a freak race with a set of built in goat horns. Not as a physiological concept. Not as a mythological character type.

However there is a definite and historical sort of mythological type that these freak races actually embody: Chimeras.

What they are is actually a sort of (badly imagined in my opinion) reinterpretation of the Centaur, and of various other classical myths in which a man possess a trait, or perhaps multiple traits, of other creatures and beings (usually animals or gods).

Now the day is coming, when it will be possible (legally perhaps not, but illegally certainly) when the genetic code of men can be reinterpreted to some degree by the addition of or replacement of non-human genetic material(s). Imagine if you will a man with eyes that had the ability to have multiple focal points, or with eyes that could operate in the same basic way as that of an eagle. Given human physiological limitations to the olfactory cavities imagine men with a near equivalent sense of smell to that of a bloodhound, or maybe even a grizzly bear.

How would that change not only a man's physiological capabilities, but his psychological outlook as well? Suppose a man possessed the nose of a grizzly bear (not in appearance, but in capability). How would this effect his psychological outlook if he could "smell death or corpses" from miles away? How sensitive would he be to pheromones? What if he could see into the ultraviolet range of the electromagnetic spectrum? Or what if hi eyes possessed natural night-vision? How would this effect not just his senses, but his mind? Maybe even his soul?

I think the Greeks, in their many exploration of the Chimera-myth were actually trying to imagine different psychological effects of, "what would a man be like if he possessed some of the peculiar and amazing and very advanced (by human standards) capabilities of the animals surrounding him?" An eagle eye is not worth his brain, being able to hear like a dog is not worth his mind, but would it not give his mind a different cast in interpreting the world? It would give me a different frame of reference, that is for sure. Eagle eyesight, infra-red vision, nightvision, dog-hearing, being able to smell like a bear, would give an incredible range and array of "new intelligence" sources that are now lacking in human beings.

Now that being the case I'll give an example of how this might play out in-game. A few months back I played a Dragonborn Ranger. I didn't like the idea of playing a freak race and didn't think I'd have any interest or sympathy with the character. But I do very much like Rangers, and I was assigned the character. Well, after a few missions and a couple of fights I suddenly realized that what I really had in my Dragonborn Ranger was nothing less than "a real Chimera." An animal sharing certain basic traits with a man and in basically an upright, man-shape.

So at that point I tried to imagine the character very much like trying to imagine myself playing one of my Great Danes. (And over the years I have conducted several experiments with developing "parallel intelligence" in animals.) I tried to imagine the "actual physiological capabilities" of the Dragonborn, and of how to best exploit those capabilities in-game, and then tried to imagine what would be the corresponding psychological effects upon such a character? What I discovered was not only that the Dragonborn was an amazingly efficient and effective character, but he was a lot of fun to play, not as a man, or as a Lizard-slash-Dragon man, but as a Chimera. A mix between man and beast. (This is another point at which I don't think the designers do such a good job, they just basically created "human outcast cultures," with many of the new races, and to a large extent I think human-Chimeras, or Chumeras -humans with animal capabilities - would indeed develop a sort of outcast sub-culture, but then again I think they would also have very, very different ways of looking at the world at large, not just their various cultural interactions. (For one thing if you had the mind of a man and the sensory capabilities of an animal I think this would profoundly reshape religious expression, perceptions, and spiritual outlook and methods.) Physiologically, psychologically, mentally, maybe even spiritually. I can't say that for sure, I am not a chimera, but I strongly suspect my Great Dane with her incredible sense of hearing, in at least that respect, perceives things about the world I never will. Of course with my mind then same can be said of me in relation to her, but imagine a human mind with animal attributes and then imagine what such a creature would be like respective to either "root species."

Now, as far as the game and tradition and myth and even aescetics go, I can certainly see why some would object to such races based on their bizarre appearance alone (not to mention the fact that it seems to me more akin to science fiction than to nasty in many respects) and how that appearance all by itself would often be a cultural and societal defect, or at least a deficit. A needless one sometimes too. And I'm not real big on 32 different Player's Handbooks, 300 races, and 50 different classes. Core, or not. At some time you reach a definite point of diminished returns, not to mention a real degree of the absurd. There is such a thing as sensory and information overload and eventually even the most die-hard fan will say, "how many different versions of a half-cat, half-goldfish, half-flying squirrel, war-forged, lightsabre wielding intelligent Giant Sloth with Bullette tusk armor and lizard clawed combat boots can you push out into D&D" before the ultimate 'cool-status' has been fully explored and extinguished. If I wanted that kind thing to go on forever then I'd just watch a rerun of Giant Anaconda Versus Super Python XXII on the Sy-Fy Channel.

But despite the fact that I think the designers are intentionally writing their own created races into oblivion and obscurity in many cases by attempting to make each one cooler and more outlandish than previous races, I think that within these races lie the germinating seeds of something that are really and even intensely interesting. Like Chimeras. Like various psychological and physiological and even spiritual traits that would definitely effect how such "races" view the world, and interface and interact with it. As well as how they interact with others.

Now in myths the chimeras almost never successfully integrated with human culture. Or any cultures. They lived in the deserts and mountains and wildernesses by themselves, away from men. Like monsters, even if they weren't monstrous in behavior (Centaurs). There are both logical and pathetic reasons for such a state of affairs if you stop and think about it for just a moment. They wouldn't long feel comfortable around most people, and most people wouldn't want them in their taverns or agoras either. There would be exceptions of course, men who sought out the companies of chimeras like that, but most societies at large would see them as a threat, and that is perfectly understandable, especially when such creatures often possessed obvious physical advantages over most men and the best way you have to suppress or counter such uneven advantages are with daggers, swords, and wooden shields. Can anyone really doubt that Grendel, even if he tended to be a rather relaxed and good-natured fellow on most occasions would not be viewed at least suspiciously and warily whenever he showed up at the Mead Hall? Or that he would naturally avoid such places so as not to have to fight to the death some drunken fool who thought he could make a name for himself as the local Ogre-slayer? Of course men would be fearful of Grendel and of course Grendel would eschew the company of most men. He'd appear as a monster or demon to most, even if he possessed the golden heart of an angel.

However men with chimerical traits, from whatever source, beast or god, were often considered heroic, powerful leaders and often greatly admired. Herakles, Alexander, and so forth. Such heroes often also took on animal totems as emblems of their rank and capabilities. Because they were by nature part man, part divine, and part beast. Herakles wore the pelt of the Nemian lion, and so forth and so on.

So, all that being said, I have a suggestion and possible solution for those who don't like their character races running around looking like they are ready to butt heads in a mountain goat rally. Take such bizarre races, remove most of the physiological decoration and accoutrements, and instead make them into races which are basically humanoid in appearance, but still possessed of the rather amazing and interesting "capabilities" of the Dragonborn, the Tiefling, and others.

They can look like men or elves or dwarves or giants but they also possess dog-hearing, or eagle eyes, or maybe they can spit corrosive fluids, or maybe their blood is like ichor and is acidic (a giant would be a good play for such a character, as long as he is not so large he cannot adventure in normal sized environments), maybe they can absorb energy directly from the sun like a lizard, and so forth and so on. In this way they can fit-in to the general world and yet the players can still effectively explore the potential such characters would possess. All you would really have to do is transform physical appearance, traits could remain basically the same.

Or you could do it like in my setting. Chimeras have long figured in my setting because it is Byzantine and so in some ways the monsters and chimeras of the world are descendents of Greek Myth. When exposed to high level magics it will sometimes mutate men or elves or dwarves, etc. into creatures with new capabilities. It will create Chimeras out of them. Now sometimes this means the magics will make "monsters out of them" reshaping their appearance into freakish, bizarre, or frightening forms. So, in effect, you could have a man or elf reformed so that he appears like a Dragonborn or a Tiefling, and gains their capabilities. You don't really create a "new race" in this way, rather you create an individual Chimera, but you could use the race in the PHB as a template for what that chimera is like. (This would be analogous to a Marvel comic type mutant, different in both power and appearance to most men.) Or sometimes in my stetting a character's appearance will not change at all due to "magical mutation" but they will nevertheless gain new capabilities. You could use the PHB races as a "capabilities template" in that case. They remain perfectly human or humanoid in appearance in that case but are possessed of the capabilities of the other races. (This would be analogous to Superman, or Spiderman. Looks like a man, has the capabilities of a god or an animal) I think both approaches make for very interesting character types, because in the one case you have the obvious societal outcast, and in the other, the subtle outcast - he appears perfectly normal but is really a "stranger in a strange land."

But in either case you have two simple solutions.

1. Create new races merely by altering appearances so that these "new races" fit easily into your established milieu.

2. Create not races, but individual Character-Chimeras, that your players can play as a sort of add-on, or value added version of the new PHB races. And in this case they could either look human, or normal, or not.

Anyways that's my take on it.

Just because a Tiefling is drawn as a goat-headed, flaming-eyed, weird looking babe in the book doesn't mean she has to make an appearance in your world in that guise.

She could just be a normal looking gal who can see good in the dark, is hard to burn, consorts with demons, and has a mean, quick temper.

You know, you could just make her a red-head.
 
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They add new races to Star Wars though... (I also don't consider it sci-fi)

I might add here that Star Wars is space opera though, so when you get a new species, you can just assume it comes from a new planet. There are so many planets in the SW galaxy, that this is easy to do. And then you're not even limited to the galaxy when you start throwing in the Yuuzhan Vong and stuff. And that's not even sentient species either, it's all the stuff that can be used for encounters, stuff D&D would classify as monsters.

With a D&D campaign, the normal assumption is that you're dealing with a sinlge Earth-like world, so with one world it's harder to put in as much extreme biodiversity. Yes, I know someone's going to mention how many new species are still discovered every day on our own world, but for the most part, the typical D&D monster is something like megafauna, and some DMs want to maintain a semi-believable ecology which isn't always easy to do. Also, the real world only has a single intelligent, sapient species capable of using culture and technology, and it's unknown as to how many such species could possibly evolve on an Earth-like planet, so lots and lots of different races in a D&D world has varying levels of believability for a players in general.

[*]Kender - Trying too hard to simultaneously be halflings and not be halflings.

That is not the problem with kender. Everyone knows what the kender's real problem is: it's a race that nearly always gets played in a way that causes problems with the group.
 

Here's the thing: somewhere in 3rd edition it somehow got implied that you could play just about any monster as a race that you could, or maybe more generally stated, anything the DM could do, the PC could do too.

Not really. I see it more as "We just give you the rules for doing so, you decide if it is appropriate for your campaign". Hence monster classes for powerful races such as dragons, angels, fiend and the like. The implication was that the DM was still the final arbiter, and a more esoteric combination such as say, a mindflayer paladin should only be allowed if it would not disrupt the campaign (something the players will have to work hand in hand with the DM to determine).

Maybe you don't care for dragonborn or warforged races in 4e. But someone out there might. Why should those who honestly want to play one have to suffer just because other people find it a stupid idea? And I am honestly still waiting for my dragon (as in, a real dragon) and mindflayer PC races writeups. ;)
 

IWith a D&D campaign, the normal assumption is that you're dealing with a sinlge Earth-like world, so with one world it's harder to put in as much extreme biodiversity. Yes, I know someone's going to mention how many new species are still discovered every day on our own world, but for the most part, the typical D&D monster is something like megafauna, and some DMs want to maintain a semi-believable ecology which isn't always easy to do. Also, the real world only has a single intelligent, sapient species capable of using culture and technology, and it's unknown as to how many such species could possibly evolve on an Earth-like planet, so lots and lots of different races in a D&D world has varying levels of believability for a players in general.

Ah, so your problem is not the exoticness but the diversity. Gotcha. That, to me, is actually a stronger argument and one I can sympathize with. But it's not a problem unique to 4e. It's a problem that's been around since at least 2e, what with Dark Sun, Dragonlance, and Planescape introducing a plethora of races. But yeah, it's something that bothers me from time to time. But given how much planewalking goes on and how several of the races aren't actually natural (tieflings and genasi are planetouched, all fey are from the Feywild) this becomes more believable, I think, in 4e, than its been in every previous edition.

Still, while designing my own fantasy world, I've narrowed down the number of races to about four or five (including humans) - and I'm very much intent on keeping that number static.
 

Ah, so your problem is not the exoticness but the diversity. Gotcha. That, to me, is actually a stronger argument and one I can sympathize with. But it's not a problem unique to 4e. It's a problem that's been around since at least 2e,

2e? Try the three little books. :p Well, maybe not that far, but I'm sure even 1e had some of these problems.

Eh, the problem is trying to maintain verisimiltude as a DM when you've got new material being made available. So it's a somewhat gripe that covers not just new races, but classes, monsters, spells, magic items and just about anything else that can be added, and thus my comment that this goes back to diaglo's favorite edition. With monsters and races, it does get harder to imagine all this different stuff popping up withing a single biosphere, unless you're spelljamming or planehopping.

But given how much planewalking goes on and how several of the races aren't actually natural (tieflings and genasi are planetouched, all fey are from the Feywild) this becomes more believable, I think, in 4e, than its been in every previous edition.

Even 2e touched this. There was of course Planescape, and Spelljammer before that could potentially add lots of new stuff to a campaign. The thing was that it was all optional campaign setting stuff, where with 4e you've got stsuff in books labled PHB2 that might make the optional approach more difficult.
 

The thing was that it was all optional campaign setting stuff, where with 4e you've got stsuff in books labled PHB2 that might make the optional approach more difficult.
Maybe I'm just crazy, but I don't see that it would be more difficult to exclude than 3e's Dragon Shaman, Knight, Duskblade, and Beguiler... Those were also in a book called PHB2, after all...

-O
 

How would that change not only a man's physiological capabilities, but his psychological outlook as well? Suppose a man possessed the nose of a grizzly bear (not in appearance, but in capability). How would this effect his psychological outlook if he could "smell death or corpses" from miles away? How sensitive would he be to pheromones? What if he could see into the ultraviolet range of the electromagnetic spectrum? Or what if hi eyes possessed natural night-vision? How would this effect not just his senses, but his mind? Maybe even his soul?
(begin tangent)
Not to go off too far on a tangent, but if you interested in taking this even further, consider whales and dolphins. First off, with sonar, they get a 3-D representation of the external world, plus it has limited X-rayish "see inside things" abilities. So, it's theorized that they can see into each other and be better able to tell if someone is sick or possibly even their mood.

But to carry it even further, I believe all land mammals' brains developed so that their sense go to different regions. So we have a visual cortex, auditory cortex, etc. and our senses are perceived as separate sense with a little interaction.

Whales and dolphins, however, separated far enough back that they have a completely different set up with single sensory cortex. All senses, sight, touch, sonar, etc. - all are perceived together as a single awareness of the external world (as best as marine biologists can determine without actually being dolphins).

So, those sort of senses and brain layouts can open up some other fun roleplaying ideas. Imagine a PC that doesn't quite get all these humans talking about "hearing" something they can't "see", or "smelling" something in the next room. Instead, they just know there's a gnoll over there. Or your perception of a person isn't just their outside, but also all of their internal organs. Just "looking" at someone and knowing how bad they are hurt or if they are hungry or agitated even. You might stare less at their face and more and their torso (which can certainly be problematic in some social situations). ;)
(end tangent)
 

Not to go off too far on a tangent, but if you interested in taking this even further, consider whales and dolphins. First off, with sonar, they get a 3-D representation of the external world, plus it has limited X-rayish "see inside things" abilities. So, it's theorized that they can see into each other and be better able to tell if someone is sick or possibly even their mood.

But to carry it even further, I believe all land mammals' brains developed so that their sense go to different regions. So we have a visual cortex, auditory cortex, etc. and our senses are perceived as separate sense with a little interaction.

Whales and dolphins, however, separated far enough back that they have a completely different set up with single sensory cortex. All senses, sight, touch, sonar, etc. - all are perceived together as a single awareness of the external world (as best as marine biologists can determine without actually being dolphins).

So, those sort of senses and brain layouts can open up some other fun roleplaying ideas. Imagine a PC that doesn't quite get all these humans talking about "hearing" something they can't "see", or "smelling" something in the next room. Instead, they just know there's a gnoll over there. Or your perception of a person isn't just their outside, but also all of their internal organs. Just "looking" at someone and knowing how bad they are hurt or if they are hungry or agitated even. You might stare less at their face and more and their torso (which can certainly be problematic in some social situations).
(end tangent)

I like it a lot KM. It is a tangent well worth exploring. Integrated, almost intuitive sensory perception. In game terms you could develop an immensely interesting race(s) just based around different perceptual methods of perceiving the world.

You could also develop magical devices which in effect allowed the same thing. A wand or rod that allows you to see internal organs and make diagnoses, see through walls like an X-Ray image or magnetic resonance image, magical items that allow the user to smell like a polar bear, or to perceive the world through sonar.

Maybe even a magical device that would "integrate all other existing sensory capabilities into a 'hyper-sense, or a super sense.'" Imagine what that could potentially do?

I can also imagine relics and artifacts which transform ordinary senses in different ways or even permanently alter sense capabilities in one way or another as either a blessing or a curse, or both. Imagine having such an integrated 'supersense.' How would it affect both your conscious and sub-conscious mind, methods of perception, and in certain situations would it not be both a blessing and a curse?

As for real life it sounds like a very interesting set of postulates upon which to design a series of real experiments, as well as technological components. Personally I've been working for awhile on the idea and construction of a device that can "smell like a bear" so as to detect corpses like a cadaver dog, but that would be even more sensitive to certain chemicals released during decomposition and which would be portable and hand-held. For field use during potential homicide investigations.

But imagine as well if you could develop a hand-held device that could a.) either allow the user a sort of sonar-sense, including visual re-interpretation of the received data, or b.) could integrate various human senses into a single, portable, easily readable-translatable device that in effect rendered a human (or perhaps even Chumeral) 'super-sense?'

Excellent ideas you stimulated. Excellent
Have some very well earned XP.
 

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