PHBII: big problem - druids lack healing at low levels!

[Nymrohd]

Druids get the heal skill on their list and ritual skill. That makes them excellent healers, not combat healers maybe but that was ime only and emergency trick of any druid I ever saw.

Quite true, Druid is a ritual caster, has heal as class skill, has Wis primary. Out of combat he is a better healer than the warlord (who does not have ritual caster or Wis primary), and is probably better at healing with rituals than bards and most clerics even (since many have Str primary).

 

[HardcoreDandDGirl]

I want to see good berry’s back

Maybe a level 2 utility that says:


Daily:
Spend a healing surge, and create a number of berry’s equal to your surge value +1d6. each one costs a minor action to eat but heals 1 hp. No one can ever benefit from more berry’s in a day then they have healing surges.

 

[Bold or Stupid]

I want to see good berry’s back

Maybe a level 2 utility that says:


Daily:
Spend a healing surge, and create a number of berry’s equal to your surge value +1d6. each one costs a minor action to eat but heals 1 hp. No one can ever benefit from more berry’s in a day then they have healing surges.

This would make an excellent nature ritual.

 

[Nymrohd]

Well you could make an artificer-like utility, with goodberry being created in a short rest and creating an artifice or something similar that players could draw hit points from in combat?

 

[Greg K]

Goodberries. I never liked the spell and hope it never comes back, well not as a druid power.

 

[malraux]

This would make an excellent nature ritual.

Or as an herbalist based system (similar to the alchemy system).

 

[Tectuktitlay]

Druids get the heal skill on their list and ritual skill. That makes them excellent healers, not combat healers maybe but that was ime only and emergency trick of any druid I ever saw.

I didn't even bother to bring this up, since ANY character with Ritual Caster and a good Wisdom score who is willing to invest in the Heal skill can be a rock-solid out-of-combat healer. But, yes, you are very much right with this point. With considerably less investment, a Druid makes a really good out of combat healer.

 

[Silverblade The Ench]

I can't speak for Silverblade, but I would have been okay with less of something else for some healing. Exactly what, I don't know, because I have only seen the first few levels. However, as I said, MC is fine- if less desireable for what I wanted

However, he just wanted some weaker healing class powers earlier to make the class a "secondary" healer (or maybe "tertiary" depending on what you to rate the various leaders against one another) . I think it is a reasonable want for the druid class. He just didn't get it.

Correct!

As the other poster noted, druids DO get a good AOE heal, and as I've said already, and shouldn't need to repeat myself, that does make them "Healers", sort of!
But it's only one spell, so there's something seriously wrong.
It's a glaring anomaly.

If the "Guardian druid" is meant to a druid with leader (secondary), and the class does have such a heal, WTH hell don't they have more healing ability?
Why is it all clumped into lvl 16?

"Primal Restoration" is roughly the same as a cleric lvl 10 power "Mass Cure Light Wounds", but druid get their power at lvl 16 and it's a bit weaker.
I'm totally happy with that difference!
Druids were not as good healers as clerics, it's not their "prime thing", and yes that does matter even in 4th ed!

You can't turn round and say "Oh er, clerics are leaders so they can wield big swords that trip folk up, n' thats it, because I say so!" by a silly sort of comparison
because just chopping folk up with swords is not what clerics are about...you've changed them totally, not merely mechanically.
They are no longer "clerics", clerics do more than melee.
Hence I said, it's starting to throw the baby out with the bath water.

Druids never ever went around before with a ghostly bear that healed and buffed folk like 4th ed shamans can! (Short of killing BooBoo )
So saying folk should mutliclass druids to get heals, is completely missing the entire point.

Why should a fighter multi-class to a ranger just to be able to use bows?!
Remember, fighters can use bows in 4th ed, ya know, it's just they ain't as good, by design and logic, as a ranger (who's a mobile light armour fighter nowadays, not a woodsman by default).
See what I mean?

I don't care what munchkin "CODzilla's" did. That's gone, that's history.
I'm a DM, I just want druids ot be "druids".
WOTC already screwed up with wizards by bending too far to reduce the over powered problem of wizards, and left them a bit under powered in 4th.
They know that, they admitted it, we hope it's fixed in Complete Arcane.
(They need their "controller" mechanics improved)

Warden never existed before 4th ed, shaman did but shamans are still pretty much "shaman" as they were, though the empahsis on "Nature" spirits is a bit much, IMHO: ancient ancestor spirits (warriors etc) should work too for shamans.

So WTH should a druid HAVE to multiclass with a shaman or cleric then waste more feats to let him swap powers, when he should have a modicum of healing ability, anyways? :/

Please, again, I am not saying they should be healing as good as clerics!
But they should have Utility powers that do so that they can chose if they wish, or attack powers that do some healing in return for hurting. Or something.

For short term simplicity sake in my own games I'm just gonna give 'em "healing word "or such if players run a druid. I don't have time to write up a bunch of different powers that are more applicable.
Please note this, it's not what I *think druids should have* it's just short term for simplicity best I can think of.
Or maybe a regen power as said before (which I'd preffer).
Anything to let my two player friends run a ranger and druid as their PCs and be able to heal up without having to waste feats on multiclassing etc etc when that doesn't make any sense.

Here are all the four druid's healing powers for comparison:

Fires of Life
Druid, daily, 1, standard, area burst 1 in 10 squares. Does 1d6+Wis fire damage and ongoing 5 fire damage
If the target dies with this in effect, you picka target to get 5+Con hit points
If they save a target getd +your COn modifier hit points.

Now that's nice, you can see it thematically: takes life and gives life, goes with the druid ethos, and ain't too powerful.
But that's the only such power, what a waste!

Primal restoration,
daily, lvl 16 utility, standard, close burst 2, spend a healing surge. or make a save

Damn good, but why? they don't get any true heal before now at all, nor any after, so why can they suddnely heal everyone around them when before they couldn't heal a single person like this?

Howl of the Wind,
lvl 16 utility, minor action, close burst 5, you and each ally in burst, you spend a healing surge, heals 2d6 hp, lvl 21 heals 3d6 hp, lvl 26 heals 4d6 hp.

Larger area than "Primal Restoration", but you lose a healing surge and heal a small amount.
So, at lvl 16 utility, you have your only two direct healing spells for druids...that is obviously barmy putting them both in together!

unyielding roots daily standard close burst 5, you and each ally, nehates forced movement, and if bloodied, on thier turn, egain hps = to your con modifier

Very weak sauce and odd as thats the only such one. Why not others, to continue that theme?
But that's it, no other power they get is like that, they get two other powers that are rubbish for hp gained.

As Bold Or Stupid notes, druids get the Heal skill on thier skill list...odd for a non-healer, eh?
And healing in combat is what counts, not out of combat!
Sure it's nice if you heal more after a fight, but it's not nearly as important as staying alive in the fight.

So:
Druids should get heals, they should not have to multiclass for it, shamans are not druids, they are thematically different and that IS important.
Druids who go towards the Leader style should be able to heal for damn sure.
Druids shouldn't heal as well as clerics, and should prefferably heal differently to clerics.
Simple, eh?

I know what roles are, but you don't screw up the game millieu and history to fit the mechanics, which hasn't happened before so why should it now?
Wanna make paladin's wear cloth, hm?

*goes out and hugs an oak!*

 

[Bold or Stupid]

Correct!

As Bold Or Stupid notes, druids get the Heal skill on thier skill list...odd for a non-healer, eh?
And healing in combat is what counts, not out of combat!
Sure it's nice if you heal more after a fight, but it's not nearly as important as staying alive in the fight.

Fighters get the Heal skill, should they get healing powers.

To list who gets heal
Avenger
Barbarian
Bard
Clerics
Druid
Fighter
Paladin
Ranger
Shaman
Warden
Warlord

So getting heal skill does not equal getting healing powers. For me in 3e I always found that the druid players felt forced to be healers (and then penalised by having to use higher spells to do it) it was an ability that ate into the rest of their stuff and detracted from the character, or at least the player's fun. Now the Druid can still be the strange old woodland hermit who repairs deer's broken legs and helps sick villagers with out people expecting him to be a combat healer.

Would I oppose druidic powers that healed? No. But I feel they should be the exception rather than the rule.

 

[webrunner]

"Leader" and "Healer" are not synonymous. Damage prevention, buffing, giving actions to allies, and tactical movement of allies are all leader abilities.