PHBII - duskblade crit question

[evilbob]

Simply put: when a duskblade is using his arcane channeling ability to channel a damaging spell through his sword and he crits on his melee attack, does the spell damage crit as well?


Less simply put: on one hand, these spells being channelled are all touch spells, and most (if not all of the damage-dealing ones anyway, which is what this question is about) can critically hit. It seems to logically follow that like pretty much anything else (except sneak attack damage), crits would multiple everything.

On the other hand, this potentially artificially inflates the crit range (or multiplier) of a touch spell. Spells only crit on a 20 and do x2, but a keen rapier could crit on a 15-20 and a scythe has a x4 multiplier. If the spell crits as well through either of these weapons, this seems quite powerful.

However, this is the main ability of the class (other than to cast in armor), so shouldn't it be that powerful?

The wording of the ability essentially says that the spell effect goes off after the hit (sorry, doing this from memory, so it may not be exact). This could be taken to imply that the weapon crits and then the spell goes off. However, the spell also eventually works on all other attacks made that round, which could imply that the spell is basically an added effect which is multiplied by the crit.


Thoughts?

 

[TYPO5478]

I know you probably want other people's opinions since you can get mine whenever you want. But since no one else has suggested anything, I'll take a swing at it. Although it may seem a little complicated, I'd calculate the crits separately. You don't have to roll separately, just pay attention to what the rolls are. Anything less than natural 20 to attack won't threaten a crit for the spell (but may still for the weapon), which means it does its normal damage (unless it misses, of course); the weapon crits however it does. Natural 20 will threaten for both spell and weapon, so confirmation can be done with one roll. If the spell crits, it does x2; the weapon does whatever it does. No extra rolling, only a few extra calculations, and a reasonably fair judgement as far as damage is concerned. Unfortunately, the only problem is that I doubt there are any rules written to support this, so it'd have to be a house rule.

 

[Hypersmurf]

For me, the closest analogy in the rules is delivering a touch spell with an unarmed strike (rather than a touch). The strike deals damage, and the spell also discharges and has its effect.

In this case, a critical hit multiplies the unarmed strike damage, but not the effect of the spell.

Delivering with a touch, a critical hit multiplies the effect of the spell.

I would, I suspect, rule that channeling works the same way - on a crit, the weapon damage is multiplied, but the spell effect is not.

It seems to logically follow that like pretty much anything else (except sneak attack damage), crits would multiple everything.

Remember, crits don't multiply anything expressed in terms of dice. Like sneak attack, but also like, say, the +1d6 for the Flaming ability.

-Hyp.

 

[wayne62682]

FWIW, I have always interpreted it that the spell becomes extra damage added to the attack and thus cannot crit at all.

 

[TYPO5478]

In this case, a critical hit multiplies the unarmed strike damage, but not the effect of the spell.

Good point, Hyp.

 

[Bad Paper]

delivering a touch spell with an unarmed strike (rather than a touch). The strike deals damage, and the spell also discharges and has its effect.

Aha! I had always wondered about that: whether you can deliver a touch-effect with an unarmed strike. Can you do it with a natural attack?
(sorry, slightly off-topic)

 

[Thanee]

Well, since the spell discharges as soon as you touch something, and you certainly do so, if you hit with a natural attack, ...

But it's actually covered specifically, so why don't we just read that...

Alternatively, you may make a normal unarmed attack (or an attack with a natural weapon) while holding a charge. In this case, you aren’t considered armed and you provoke attacks of opportunity as normal for the attack. (If your unarmed attack or natural weapon attack doesn’t provoke attacks of opportunity, neither does this attack.) If the attack hits, you deal normal damage for your unarmed attack or natural weapon and the spell discharges. If the attack misses, you are still holding the charge.

Bye
Thanee

 

[szilard]

For me, the closest analogy in the rules is delivering a touch spell with an unarmed strike (rather than a touch). The strike deals damage, and the spell also discharges and has its effect.

In this case, a critical hit multiplies the unarmed strike damage, but not the effect of the spell.

Is this accurate?

I mean, isn't a normal touch attack simply a touch hitting and doing no damage and then the spell also discharges and has its effect?


How I'd handle it?

The weapon crits as normal.

Spells only crit on a 20 (unless you take improved critical for channelled spells).
The confirmation is the same for both, so you only roll for the attack once and the confirmation once, but it is possible for the weapon to crit and the spell not to...


-Stuart

 

[evilbob]

I have to say that Hyper's argument is the way I started to lean when I re-read the crit rules again. Normally all "extra dice" are -not- multiplied for crits, so this seems to be the closest "rule" to what this is. I had also considered TYPO's idea, but it's a bit of bookkeeping for something that seems like it needs a more simple "ruling."

Overall I think this lowers the potential power of the Duskblade, but since the overall effect is fairly powerful (delivering touch spells with a full BAB), it seems to fall in line with the design.

Other thoughts?

 

[Hypersmurf]

Is this accurate?

I'm away from my books, but it's either the PHB or Complete Arcane that specifies that when delivering a touch spell with an unarmed strike, only the unarmed strike damage is multiplied on a crit. Complete Arcane also goes into detail about multiplying damage on a crit with a weaponlike spell.

-Hyp.