Pimp my lich

[Runestar]

Divine metamagic applies only to divine spells, IIRC (may or may not be an issue in the hands of a DM, who has more leeway in interpreting the rules creatively).

Though I find the cr+2 adjustment for a lich somewhat high, and feel that I would be better off tacking on the necropilitan template instead. I still get most of the goodies that come with the undead type, and have 2 more class lvs to play around.

Alternatively, throw on class lvs onto an existing undead monster (like a mummy cleric or ghast wizard), though you must bear in mind that those class lvs do not automatically get upgraded to d12s, so your undead caster may have much fewer hp than expected.

 

[Bungus]

Divine metamagic applies only to divine spells, IIRC (may or may not be an issue in the hands of a DM, who has more leeway in interpreting the rules creatively).

Though I find the cr+2 adjustment for a lich somewhat high, and feel that I would be better off tacking on the necropilitan template instead. I still get most of the goodies that come with the undead type, and have 2 more class lvs to play around.

Alternatively, throw on class lvs onto an existing undead monster (like a mummy cleric or ghast wizard), though you must bear in mind that those class lvs do not automatically get upgraded to d12s, so your undead caster may have much fewer hp than expected.

Just curious - why is CR+2 high? Should a lich be CR+0 or +1? A straight level 20 human would not be immune to mind-affecting spells/powers, would not have DR, would not have an innate paralyzing touch, and would likely have a lousy Fort save.

 

[Runestar]

Just curious - why is CR+2 high?

This implies that a human spellcaster lich is presumably as challenging as 2 non-lich spellcasters of identical build (eg: a sorc20 lich will be as tricky to overcome as 2 human sorc20s). I personally feel that is certainly not the case.

A straight level 20 human would not be immune to mind-affecting spells/powers, would not have DR, would not have an innate paralyzing touch, and would likely have a lousy Fort save.

The dr is inconsequential since such attacks should not be affecting a spellcaster much, if at all (plus at higher lvs, the damage reduced likely represents a small fraction of the damage a fighter can throw out). The other benefits are fairly minor. Your lich should not be attacking with its touch attack under any circumstances (though I suppose it might be handy if the fighter ever provokes an AoO from you for any reason).

As for the weak fort save, well, that is why I recommended necropolitan, since you still get all basic undead traits at cr+0.

 

[Bungus]

This implies that a human spellcaster lich is presumably as challenging as 2 non-lich spellcasters of identical build (eg: a sorc20 lich will be as tricky to overcome as 2 human sorc20s). I personally feel that is certainly not the case.



The dr is inconsequential since such attacks should not be affecting a spellcaster much, if at all (plus at higher lvs, the damage reduced likely represents a small fraction of the damage a fighter can throw out). The other benefits are fairly minor. Your lich should not be attacking with its touch attack under any circumstances (though I suppose it might be handy if the fighter ever provokes an AoO from you for any reason).

As for the weak fort save, well, that is why I recommended necropolitan, since you still get all basic undead traits at cr+0.

I would agree - two level 20 sorcerers would be way more challenging than one lich that is a level 20 caster. You would have 2 bad guys flinging level 8 and 9 spells around instead of 1. Didn't think about it that way until you pointed it out.