Pinned Dragon

[Epametheus]

[module spoiler comming up]

So the players have subdued the dragon and returned it to the Kobolds. Now they plan to wipe the Kobolds out - so they'll have to fight it again!

Heh.
[module spoilers]
DM: "you find a kobold huddling in the bedroll" (or wherever the hell Meepo found)
Player that shall be indentified as Cormac: "I kill it."
DM: "Excuse me?"
Cormac: "I'm killing it; my character can't stand kobolds."
DM: "Okay, you've killed Meepo." (said in a tone of "oh, dear GOD")

We then proceeded to kill the rest of the kobold tribe in one sweep, and then all of the goblins and the white wyrmling on the second one (yes, this was a first level party). We didn't kill Irky, though! He was the only thing found in the Sunless Citadel to survive meeting that mess of a party.
[/module spoilers]

The parties spawned by that particular group combine being thoroughly psychotic with being staggeringly effective.

Getting back on topic, the rule for dragon breath in a grapple is also at the top of page 62 of the MM.

I dunno what the heck the check DC for a breath weapon use is (probably just 15), but the wyrmling probably doesn't have the best of concentration checks.

 

[Bob Mackenzie]

Getting back on topic, the rule for dragon breath in a grapple is also at the top of page 62 of the MM.

I dunno what the heck the check DC for a breath weapon use is (probably just 15), but the wyrmling probably doesn't have the best of concentration checks.

Thanks - found it. Amazing what you miss when scrambling through the books quickly trying not to break the continuity of the adventure

Cheers

Bob

 

[Brekki]

Bob: Breathweapon IS a supernatural ability so indeed needs a concentration check

 

[HeavyG]

From MM2:
A dragon can always use its breath weapon while grappling, as well as its spell-like or supernatural abilities, provided it succeeds at a Concentration check.

There are also rules there (page 78) about which attacks a dragon can use in a grapple.

Maybe so, but in the example, the dragon is pinned, which is one step further from grappling :

From the SRD :
Pin: A combatant can hold an opponent immobile for 1 round. (If a combatant gets multiple attacks, the combatant can use subsequent attacks to damage the opponent. A combatant can't use a weapon on a pinned opponent or attempt to damage or pin a second opponent while holding a pin on the first.) While a combatant is pinned, opponents other than the one pinning the combatant get a +4 bonus on attack rolls against the combatant (but the combatant is not helpless).

It's still not clear, but I wouldn't let a dragon breathe while pinned. If you can prevent it from slashing you with a claw, you can probably hold it's mouth away from you as well.

 

[Brekki]

I think a concentration check of 20+ is hard enough, and besides hitting the other grappler, the breath weapons direction should be random.

 

[Bob Mackenzie]

Bob: Breathweapon IS a supernatural ability so indeed needs a concentration check

Hmmm! Thanks for pointing it out but it doesn't fit my mental image of dragon's breath. I picture breathing as akin to spitting, just somewhat more unpleasant. I can't see that spitting requires much concentration. What is the DC of the check?

I also feel that dragons can breath via their noses as well as their mouths, so pinning its jaw shut isn't a viable defence.

Cheers

Bob

 

[reapersaurus]

I also feel that dragons can breath via their noses as well as their mouths, so pinning its jaw shut isn't a viable defence.

Flaming snot?

 

[MeepoTheMighty]

Heh.
[module spoilers]
DM: "you find a kobold huddling in the bedroll" (or wherever the hell Meepo found)
Player that shall be indentified as Cormac: "I kill it."
DM: "Excuse me?"
Cormac: "I'm killing it; my character can't stand kobolds."
DM: "Okay, you've killed Meepo." (said in a tone of "oh, dear GOD")

We then proceeded to kill the rest of the kobold tribe in one sweep, and then all of the goblins and the white wyrmling on the second one (yes, this was a first level party). We didn't kill Irky, though! He was the only thing found in the Sunless Citadel to survive meeting that mess of a party.
[/module spoilers]

The parties spawned by that particular group combine being thoroughly psychotic with being staggeringly effective.

Savages.

 

[Brekki]

The description ...

A dragon can always use its breath weapon while grappling, as well as its spell-like or supernatural abilities, provided it succeeds at a Concentration check.

... probably means they don't need a concentration check for their breath weapon, and other SU abilities, but only for their spell-like abilities because ...

...supernatural abilities do not provoke attacks of opportunity and never require Concentration checks.

[also from MM2, page 13]

So once again the descriptions are not as precise as they could have been

 

[Bob Mackenzie]

Flaming snot?

Yeah and they have rotating nostrils so can spew flame, frozen ball of dried up mucus or whatever at any angle even if their heads are pinned!

Cheers

Bob