Pinpointing area spells

[Kmart Kommando]

No one seems to use Lightning Bolts anymore, even though they have that side effect of blowing holes through walls and doors and stuff. Much more satisfying than casting Knock.

 

[javcs]

No one seems to use Lightning Bolts anymore, even though they have that side effect of blowing holes through walls and doors and stuff. Much more satisfying than casting Knock.

They also start fires and melt soft metals.

I had a BBEG in a dungeon once, the entryway to his sanctum was a wood platform, attached to the rock with bronze, over a huge pit filled with brown mold. Needless to say, the first spell he cast once they were all on there was lightning bolt. Then the minions just started chucking torches down there.

Anyways, back on topic (well, on topic anyways), I would have to say let the casters look at ways to place their spells for the best effect, but let them know that they shouldn't take forever to do so.
Tiberius, Lukelightning, Pyrex, etc. have got it, we (the players) are nowhere near as skilled or knowledgeable about placing spells to their best effects as our characters are, who do that sort of thing for a living all day everyday, while we do that for a few hours at a time, every so often (there are some exceptions, of course, but in general I don't think many people do little else but game for days on end),

 

[KarinsDad]

I think precision targeting is a metagaming concept.

I basically do what the OP wrote:

1) Pick the intersection you want to target. No cross table talking, no measuring distances from that point to allies and enemies, just do it.

2) After the intersection is chosen, we then figure out if it was within the proper range, etc.

3) If in range, we then use the template (or eyeball it if simple).

This speeds up the game a lot and is more plausible than a computer guided wizard targeting system.

Ditto for PC movement.

We have a new player who wants to count out every single square of his PC's movement before he moves his miniature. I stop him and say "tell me what your PC is doing and then move him, do not count it out". Once he moves the PC in a square, that's it. He does not get to suddenly realize that his move is not sufficient and that a different path was better, or that he wanted to go right of the target instead of left, or that opps, this square results in an NPC AoO.

I have no problem with a player counting out in his head his movement or an area of effect ahead of time, but when it is his turn, move or don't move. Target, or don't target.

This is not a chess game where all variables should be analyzed. It's a chaotic combat.

 

[ScipioX]

I see no problem with precise positioning of area spells. I figure it's all part of the spellcaster's training. My wizard has far more knowledge about casting fireball than I do, and he would know exactly how to place it.

I think that taking away this precision unfairly limits casters. There are already so many ways that magic is limited, through saves that seem to skyrocket faster than the caster's DCs, the need for touch attacks with many spells (which is a real limit for wizards, who probably don't have precise shot), spell resistance, and stuff like that.

This one really made me laugh. On no, the poor casters are so weak. Fireball and Evard's tentacles are some of the nastiest spells for their level. Taking away pinpoint targeting is hardly gonna break full casters.

But basically it comes down to the nature of your group. Do you like chaotic free for alls where mistakes can happen? Or does that kind of thing engender bitterness? I personally think that chaotic battles where the unexpected happens sometimes are the best, but that's just my opinion. I guess a really good way to tell is to just look at the stories that the players trot out from time to time.

 

[Mark Chance]

If you want to inject a little uncertainty with pinpointing area spells, disallow square counting and use the "Missing with a Thrown Weapon" chart of p. 158 of the PH, but use 1d10 and count results of 9-10 as "hitting" the target square.

 

[Plane Sailing]

As stated above, you target a battle grid intersection as the center of an effect, not a square. However, in the optional targeting rule, you do target a square--and then you role 1d4 to determine randomly which corner of that square is the actual center of the effect. That way, a spellcaster has control over the location, but not exact precision over that control.

I've heard this idea too, and it seems like quite a neat solution if there is a problem of 'too specific targetting' going on (a problem to some people, not a problem to others).

 

[Nail]

To the OP: Just ask that other players NOT touch the template, and NOT help the PC in placement of the template.

That takes care of your "time" issue, as well as making a nod toward the "mistakes happen; combat is chaotic" point.






BTW: What do you use as templates? I've found the Steel Squire templates work very well.

 

[werk]

I don't really mind other players helping target, and I haven't often seen it cause big delays.

The other players 'helping' is the only part I don't like. Too meta, too player knowledge, too lame. ...and sometimes the caster SHOULD hit the bad-tactics PCs. Don't let the other players tell a player how to play his PC. The first time I had a spell area determined by another player is when I tell him that his character doesn't charge but instead stays near my caster with a readied action to defend me. Good for the goose...

IMC the caster points at the intersection, I draw a rough area. Pretty fast and no problems for us yet.

 

[Jemal]

Hmm, I was just reminded of an argument one of my players used to sway me once upon a time. He reminded me of how adept he'd become at aiming Area of Effect spells in RealTime Video Games(Neverwinter Nights, Warcraft/World of Warcraft, etc) with pinpoint accuracy (Which, granted, he's very good at), and asked why it should be any different for the mage to be just as good. Presumably the mage, who's basing his LIFE around his magic, should be as good a shot as some guy playing a video game, eh?

 

[Someone]

I was a bit more radical. I had my players hold the fireball cutout about half a foot over the battlemat and drop it. They literaly dropped the fireball!