pinpointing invisible opponents

[Hypersmurf]

Umm, guys... maybe the intent of that wording is the emphasis on the word "foe" rather than standard AoE. In other words, spells like Fireball will work just fine on an invisible critter, because they're untargeted. But the rule is referring to stuff like Scare, where they're targeted in the AoE.

At least that's my interpretation. Admittedly the text is a bit wonky. But I see no reason why being invisible should render one immune from the effects of, say, Sleep.

You've got it backwards - the invisible person isn't being hit by the fireball; the invisible person is casting the fireball. The point under discussion is what actions cause an invisibility spell to terminate.

Hitting an enemy goblin with an axe ends your invisibility. Hitting a rope with an axe does not.

Casting a fireball that includes an enemy goblin in its area ends your invisibility. Casting a fireball that includes a rope in its area... well, it's debatable.

Is fireball a 'spell that foes resist with saving throws' inherently? Or does that refer to a specific instance of the spell - this fireball, foes resisted with saving throws, but that fireball, targeted on empty space, nobody resisted at all?

-Hyp.

 

[phindar]

Why would Detect Thoughts (which allows a save) not be an attack?

The current description of Invisibility would include the spell Detect Thoughts, when including a foe, to be an attack. I'd say that's spot on.

The reason I chose DT and Hold Person was I wanted to showcase the difference between two Will Saves (one Divination, the other Enchantment/Charm). Divinations aren't attack spells, even though some require saving throws.

It should be the act of casting the spell that determines whether or not Invis fails, rather than whether or not the spell hits anyone.

 

[axp_dave]

Throw flour on the floor to reveal footsteps,

This is very clever and would really help the party. Even if they did not have flour for a large area, they might be able to hole up in a hall or small room and cover some of the area towards them. Overall, an invisible opponent is extremely difficult to beat. Even putting down flour on one side of he party to limit movement would help.

Bake a loaf of bread...no one can resist the smell of baking bread

Very true!!!

David

 

[Nail]

Divinations aren't attack spells, even though some require saving throws.

According to the Invisibilty spell description, they are.

For purposes of this spell, an attack includes any spell targeting a foe or whose area or effect includes a foe. (Exactly who is a foe depends on the invisible character’s perceptions.)

Detect Thoughts could be cast so that its "effect includes a foe." That's the point of such a spell!

 

[kolikeos]

Items in the invisible creature's possetion also become invisible at casting time.

Items dropped or put down by an invisible creature become visible; items picked up disappear if tucked into the clothing or pouches worn by the creature.

So if you dump flour on top of someone, it stays visible unless they turn all their clothes inside out, or cast invisibility again.

-Hyp.

If i have been glitterdusted, will casting invisibility again help?

 

[RedFox]

You've got it backwards

Whoops, you're right. I got mondo confused on that one.

Then again, this Invisibility thing is rather confusing. Y'think maybe it'd have been easier to just specify that spells that have a range other than personal terminate?

 

[phindar]

According to the Invisibilty spell description, they are.

My point is to change the Invisibility failing from being situational to something that makes more sense. Instead of casting Detect Thoughts (or Evil, or Good, or another spell like Fireball) and having your invisibility dependent on whether or not an enemy is in the area effect of that spell, make it so that a certain type of action (like an attack) is what causes you to become visible. Passive spells like Divinations aren't deemed attacks, because they don't have an affect upon the target, whereas Enchantments would be, because they do.

 

[RichGreen]

How about the waterveiled assassin (MMIV) which is invisible while in water? This is a natural ability of the creature. Can it be detected?

Cheers


Richard

 

[Hypersmurf]

If i have been glitterdusted, will casting invisibility again help?

That depends on your interpretation of Glitterdust.

Does the spell create millions of reflective particles, or does it create millions of luminescent particles?

If you cast Glitterdust in a pitch black room, can you see the dust sparkling? Or does it only sparkle if there's an existing light source?

If it gives off its own light, casting Invisibility again won't help, because while the source of the light becomes invisible, the light does not... so you still have an invisible person with a glowing outline. If it only reflects light, Invisibility works just fine, because something invisible can't reflect light.

(One interesting thought experiment - if someone with Darkvision and See Invisible looks in an invisible mirror in a dark room, what does he see?)

Casting Invisibility twice will work vs the flour trick, because the flour doesn't glow...

-Hyp.

 

[Nail]

Passive spells like Divinations aren't deemed attacks, because they don't have an affect upon the target, ....

Err?

Knowing the thoughts of an enemy (because he failed a Will save) doesn't have an affect upon him?