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D&D 4E Piracy and 4e

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Makaze

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Progress comes from people's work and labor. Science has been developed not because of ideas but because of libraries of knowledge accumulated. These libraries were build with labor.
Sure add industrial power or labor power to my previous list. They along with the others are ways we effect the world and can contribute to progress. But I would dispute the fact that progress comes solely from those 2 sources. Plowing a field over and over every year may be very labor intensive but it's not progress.

And those libraries you mention were built not only with labor but also knowledge and material resources (equivalent to money). Science doesn't exist and advance solely because of our ideas but (with the exception of things such as mathematics) also requires labor and materials. It's all very circular and interconnected. Which is kind of my whole point, it takes labor and material (money in modern society) to advance science. IP rights help channel the money to those goals.

Humans are social creatures. They share things. It is not because I "said" so. It is because this is our nature.
Humans are not so simple as that. We run the gamut from introvert to extrovert. And while on average we may tend to gather into groups of varying size, civilization and the macro scale concepts we're discussing have little to do with that. Left to their own devices humans tend to form, at best, tribe sized social groups. It's only when outside factors such as economies of scale, minimum populations required for some projects or technologies, and economics come into the picture that we begin gathering in larger groups. And those connection between members of those larger groups tend to be tenuous at best.

So given your supposition that we're all social creatures and it's in our nature to share everything then why aren't we? Because it's faulty logic that's why. Simply being social does not mean we do or even should share all information amongst each other. Knowledge is one of the facets of power with which we effect the world and so giving that knowledge to others empowers them. We don't always want that, sometimes for good reason and sometimes for bad.
 

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xechnao

First Post
Makaze said:
We run the gamut from introvert to extrovert. And while on average we may tend to gather into groups of varying size, civilization and the macro scale concepts we're discussing have little to do with that. Left to their own devices humans tend to form, at best, tribe sized social groups.
It is not just gathering. Every brick of the structure of civilization represents our social nature of collaboration. Even rising children demands social interaction.

Makaze said:
So given your supposition that we're all social creatures and it's in our nature to share everything then why aren't we? Because it's faulty logic that's why. Simply being social does not mean we do or even should share all information amongst each other. Knowledge is one of the facets of power with which we effect the world and so giving that knowledge to others empowers them. We don't always want that, sometimes for good reason and sometimes for bad.
It is no faulty logic. It is the historical truth. Every historically noted progress has its roots on common knowledge. You know that alchemists and alchemy never made it.
It is only that history takes its time to be made.Now we are in the phase of corporations. That thing will change in the future.
 



Will

First Post
Well, the use of 'sharing' and repeated use of the word 'labor' seems very suggestive.

And I only ask not to label, but if you are a strong believer in socialism, there are axiomatic differences between us that pretty much render conversation on this topic impossible.
 

Thasmodious

First Post
Sharing, fair labor (honest days work for an honest days pay), cooperation...

Yeah, you evil, heartless, socialist bastard!

There's a reason our parents try to instill those values in us as children - so we won't grow up to be greedy, self-centered, capitalist scumbags.
 

Nytmare

David Jose
Will said:
I suspect most people arguing 'knowledge should be free' are folks who never came up with an idea anyone else would pay for.

I don't know, I work in the entertainment industry, juggling between film, television, and game design. I'm a huge proponent of movie piracy, even though film work is my bread and butter. A major chunk of the television work I do is for public broadcasting, and the most successful game I've been a direct part of is Kingdom of Loathing which is a free, web based game that broke a million dollars over a year ago, based off of nothing but donations.

A good friend of mine is a musician who used to charge "whatever you can afford" when he was burning CDs himself. If you were broke, you got one for free. The moment he upgraded to having his CDs professionally burned, and charging 12 bucks a pop to cover his costs, he started losing money. Guess what he's charging now?

My experience has been that people will pay for things that they think deserve it, regardless of whether or not they can get it for free.
 

Will

First Post
Nytmare:
You're just creating a different scheme to get paid, though; one that I really like, mind you.

But how fun would all that be if nobody ever donated, or if you weren't allowed to be paid for it?
 


Will

First Post
Saying 'ideas should be free' and then using an example where people donate lots of money to you doesn't translate to 'ideas are free,' it's just a different way of marketing ideas.

Now, some folks have been maintaining that the classic vendor model of selling products just doesn't work as well as a more free-form donation model, and RPGs have had a few people experimenting (Ransom model, etc.). It's still selling ideas, and ideas are still 'worth' something, it's just adopting a different approach.

This is different than saying ideas should never be worth money and should be freely shared. It's very different than saying people have the right to pirate ideas because the people with the ideas aren't handling them right.

And because things always get tense in these threads, here's a polar bear playing with huskies:

polar_bear_huskies7.jpg
 

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