D&D 4E Piracy and 4e

[Thasmodious]

Where does this come from?

Typical American propaganda engineered misconceptions about socialism.

 

[Henry]

LADIES AND GENTS:

When we start labelling one another, ascribing motives to other people's posts, dragging others' politics in, and psychanalyzing one another, the discussion is heading dangerously into flamebait territory, and I'll sooner close discussion of the thread than see it go out of control.

Keep that in mind.

 

[xechnao]

Saying 'ideas should be free' and then using an example where people donate lots of money to you doesn't translate to 'ideas are free,' it's just a different way of marketing ideas.

Now, some folks have been maintaining that the classic vendor model of selling products just doesn't work as well as a more free-form donation model, and RPGs have had a few people experimenting (Ransom model, etc.). It's still selling ideas, and ideas are still 'worth' something, it's just adopting a different approach.

This is different than saying ideas should never be worth money and should be freely shared. It's very different than saying people have the right to pirate ideas because the people with the ideas aren't handling them right.

It is not ideas. It is your effort to compile and communicate your ideas in a medium that people want. It is true that without ideas you can't do this but this does not mean that economy is based on ideas. It is based on communication. As long as people like your work and effort you are normaly going to be paid. If not it will be due to competition.

 

[Zil]

Well, the use of 'sharing' and repeated use of the word 'labor' seems very suggestive.

And I only ask not to label, but if you are a strong believer in socialism, there are axiomatic differences between us that pretty much render conversation on this topic impossible.

Excuse me? Just because the person on the other side is a<apply your label>, you can't have a conversation? Most of us on this forum live in pluralistic societies where discussion and debate between different interests is vital to finding the common good.

As for words like labour somehow being suggestive of someone being a Socialist, I guess you've never taken an economics or modern history course? It's not just the Left that talks about labour.

 

[Will]

It is application and usage of words in broad contexts that is suggestive, Zil. And it's not a matter of sides, but if people have strong axiomatic beliefs about certain things, it's kind of pointless discussing those beliefs for very long.

Xechnao:
While the expression/packaging of ideas has value, I disagree that it is the only value.

A good song, poorly performed and expressed, can be highly valuable to someone else capable of performing and expressing it well, or incorporating it into other ideas.

 

[Nytmare]

Saying 'ideas should be free' and then using an example where people donate lots of money to you doesn't translate to 'ideas are free,' it's just a different way of marketing ideas.

But the ideas are free? Anyone who wants them can take them free of charge, and anyone who wants to support those free ideas and foster more of them can do so by spreading those ideas around, making those ideas better, or by helping me keep food on the table and clothes on my back.

"Ideas should be free" doesn't mean that the world should be a totalitarian regime where people are forced to give up their ideas to make my world a better place, and the people who think that "ideas should be free" have plenty of free ideas that people are more than willing to pay for.

 

[xechnao]

Xechnao:
While the expression/packaging of ideas has value, I disagree that it is the only value.

A good song, poorly performed and expressed, can be highly valuable to someone else capable of performing and expressing it well, or incorporating it into other ideas.

I never said it is the only value. In fact I said that without ideas you have no value at all.

 

[Emirikol]

So, what are your thoughts on how fast 4e will be pirated? Overnight?

Jay H

 

[baberg]

So, what are your thoughts on how fast 4e will be pirated? Overnight?

To be honest? I'm surprised there aren't PDFs of Keep on the Shadowfell right now. And yes, I've looked for one.

 

[pemerton]

Now, some folks have been maintaining that the classic vendor model of selling products just doesn't work as well as a more free-form donation model, and RPGs have had a few people experimenting (Ransom model, etc.). It's still selling ideas, and ideas are still 'worth' something, it's just adopting a different approach.

I'm not sure that a ransom approach is "just adopting a different approach". Arguably, it has as much in common with a pre-modern "patrongage" approach to the support of the arts, as it does to the modern market approach. Likewise for "pay what you feel" or "pay what you can afford".

In any discussion of economic history or social development, it is a mistake to assume that any exchange (which is as old as human history) is commodity exchange in the modern sense.