Pathfinder 2E Pirates & Gray Maidens: Archetypes in Pathfinder 2nd Edition!

It's time to take a look at Pathfinder 2nd Edition's treatment of archetypes. Archetypes are one of the most widely used additions to Pathfinder 1st Edition, and in 2nd Edition they are an integral part of the game. Let's take a look!

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• Archetypes can be accessed by multiple classes.
• They are a series of feats taken instead of class feats (roughly one every other level).
• You take a "dedication" feat which opens up all the archetype's feats to you.
• You can have multiple archetypes by making more than one dedication, but once you take a dedication you can't take another until you've taken a certain number of its related archetype feats.
• Pirate Dedication -- "this first feat gives you a fair number of advantages while on a boat, certainly helping should combat break out, but you need to take more pirate feats before you can pick up another dedication feat... The pirate archetype has six feats to choose from (in addition to the dedication feat), which gives you plenty of variety if you are looking to explore the archetype before heading to the next one."
  • Sea Legs -- "Sea Legs really helps when you are in the water, letting you swim faster and hold your breath longer. It's also a prerequisite for Roll with the Ship, a feat that lets you reroll your Reflex saves when you are on your ship!"
  • Boarding Action -- "Boarding Action is one of those feats that nearly every pirate can be expected to have, since setting yourself up to board and pillage the enemy ship is going to be vital! It lets you close the distance to your foes, and if you move from one ship to another during this move, you can make a strike that deals extra damage! It's a bit more limited than the fighter's Sudden Charge, but you deal bonus damage as a benefit if you pull it off."
• Gray Maiden Dedication -- "Becoming a master at Fortitude saves is not something you can easily do in most classes; in fact, level 6 is sooner than even a barbarian can manage, and that armor is some of the best you can find. Of course, joining the Gray Maiden organization is no simple feat either."
  • Unbreakable -- "This grants many of the benefits of the Toughness and Diehard general feats combined, and it stacks with both to make an incredibly resilient character."

 

[Shasarak]

If you don't find infinite fall distance with a hero landing at the end at 120 mph (terminal velocity) with enough force to smash stonework to smithereens but leaving the character entirely unharmed (a classic 'hero landing' as the character isn't prone at the end...), despite the fact no magic was used is about as Manga as it gets.

D&D hasn't been a Manga rpg... yet...

Falling damage has always been manga in DnD.

Now if you want to complain about mental rules then not being able to use both your magic axe and potion in the same day because you are too ugly which is going to happen more often then a legendary character surviving a fall.

 

[MichaelSomething]

If you don't find infinite fall distance with a hero landing at the end at 120 mph (terminal velocity) with enough force to smash stonework to smithereens but leaving the character entirely unharmed (a classic 'hero landing' as the character isn't prone at the end...), despite the fact no magic was used is about as Manga as it gets.

D&D hasn't been a Manga rpg... yet...

And one guy taking out a hundred isn't manga??

Edit: and I forget Oriental adventures

 

[Aldarc]

Falling damage has always been manga in DnD.

Now if you want to complain about mental rules then not being able to use both your magic axe and potion in the same day because you are too ugly which is going to happen more often then a legendary character surviving a fall.

This is such an exceedingly small part of what Charisma entails, and it's an aspect that really does not come up much. I have players who played their characters as being hideous but with high Charisma. So this sort of causal relation you create seems negligible. Most players IME don't even have any concept that these two are linked in D&D or Pathfinder.

 

[Shasarak]

This is such an exceedingly small part of what Charisma entails, and it's an aspect that really does not come up much. I have players who played their characters as being hideous but with high Charisma. So this sort of causal relation you create seems negligible. Most players IME don't even have any concept that these two are linked in D&D or Pathfinder.

And Players have characters who are good looking and smooth talking with low Charisma. Nothing you can do about that, Players got to be Players.

 

[houser2112]

Falling damage has always been manga in DnD.

Now if you want to complain about mental rules then not being able to use both your magic axe and potion in the same day because you are too ugly which is going to happen more often then a legendary character surviving a fall.

This is such an exceedingly small part of what Charisma entails, and it's an aspect that really does not come up much. I have players who played their characters as being hideous but with high Charisma. So this sort of causal relation you create seems negligible. Most players IME don't even have any concept that these two are linked in D&D or Pathfinder.

The point he's trying to make is that Resonance is a crappy mechanic that is also pretty well divorced from verisimilitude, but doesn't have the advantage of having been baked into the system for 40 years.

 

[TwoSix]

And Players have characters who are good looking and smooth talking with low Charisma. Nothing you can do about that, Players got to be Players.

You say it like it's a bad thing.

 

[Aldarc]

The point he's trying to make is that Resonance is a crappy mechanic that is also pretty well divorced from verisimilitude, but doesn't have the advantage of having been baked into the system for 40 years.

Ach so.

 

[Kurviak]

Falling damage has always been manga in DnD.

Now if you want to complain about mental rules then not being able to use both your magic axe and potion in the same day because you are too ugly which is going to happen more often then a legendary character surviving a fall.

So in your interpretation of the rules Ghouls are very pretty with charisma 14 and Ghasts stunning at charisma 16

 

[Schmoe]

When I was writing my Character Customization product (look it up, it's complete out of date these days), I took a turn down this alley. I went so far as to say there was character level. You just counted your feats to compare two characters' power levels. But I kept having features that were just a little powerful compared to the others and if they were split they became too weak. Balancing hundreds of feats against hundreds of other feats is not trivial.

That is pretty interesting. It sounds like you took the system to the extreme and found it broke. Intuitively, it seems like there is a reasonable middle ground that you might reach by, for example, restricting the space into skill feats vs. heritage feats vs. class feats etc. And then furthermore if you design feats that don't necessarily have synergy or are wholly orthogonal then maybe it's ok if some might be a little bit more powerful than others. But of course I haven't designed such a system, and I haven't seen one either. I'm definitely looking forward to seeing how Paizo approaches it.

 

[Schmoe]

The Pirate Dedication and Gray Maiden Defication feats are examples. Each is a gateway to the other archetype feats but still grant benefits of their own. I dunno how much their benefit is compared to other feats, but they are beneficial feats on their own beyond just opening up the archetype. Also the other archetype feat examples they have aren’t in any chain, just have the dedication feat and min level as prerequisites.

I'm generally ok with a small investment being required to get certain class features, and a devotion feat sounds like one such investment. I'm especially ok with it if that initial investment is worthwhile on its own, so hopefully the devotion feats are independently worth it. If they are, then they would be a great way to cement what it really means to be a particular archetype. What I don't want to see though are long feat chains with relatively useless feats up front.