Pirating RPGs. (And were not talking "arggg" pirate stuff here.)

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I will freely admit that I have received electronic copies of copyrighted material.

Several such items were copies of products that are long out of print and the intellectual property has been abandoned by the rightsholder. Attempts have been made to contact the rightsholder and obtain permission to reproduce the product, all of which have proven fruitless. If recent legislation regarding orphaned intellectual property is passed, the above would not only be perfectly legal, but would allow me to create and sell products based on this property and set up a compensation fund in case the owner shows up.

Several items were obtained for review purposes. These electronic copies were read/examined and more often than not I have later purchased the item in question. This has been the case with several CDs of music, two RPG books, and one DVD set for a TV show. In all those cases the electronic copies I obtained were most likely not legally reproduced. With those files, however, I was able to make a much more informed purchase than I could have without them. After reviewing them I made my decision regarding purchasing and then deleted the file. Why clutter up my harddrive with files that are useless to me?

To be perfectly honest, given the chance I would download the Army of Darkness RPG file. I would take a look at it, see if I like it, then decide if I want to buy it or not. If I decide not to buy it, it saves me the trip to a game store that may or may not let me read through the book before buying it. If I decide to buy it I can be assured that I will have a product I want and won’t be in for any disappointing surprises.

Not everyone who obtains an electronic copy of a product is doing so for nefarious purposes. Some just want to look before they buy. I am sorry if you do not like this, but I am becoming an old dog and I don’t learn new tricks as easily as I used to. I look before I buy. I always have, and I always will.
 

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Jonny Nexus said:
I suppose what I'm saying is that if I write a story, I have a really strong emotional feeling/belief that I own it. I don't see it as "information" that I "discovered", I see it as a "thing" that I created.

Now that's regardless of the law. That's just how I feel.

And regardless of privacy, I feel that because it's mine, I have the right to say who can see it. I think - for example - that I would have the right to give you a copy of my story, but tell you that I don't want you to give copies and to other people. (And if you're not happy with that, then you can say "no thank you" and not accept the copy).
I hope this isn't too political, but here goes. I will speak only for US law, since that is where I live and that is the law I am familiar with. Obviously, different regions of the world have slightly different laws...

Copyright is just that - the right to control the creation of "copies" (including "derivative works"). That's all it is. Things get tough because we use "copy" as both a verb and a noun and sometimes the noun usage is unclear - if I say I have a copy of a book (for instance), it is not clear whether I mean a single instance of a physical book printed with approval of the copyright holder or a (probably illegal) xeroxed copy, loose-leaf of the same.

To help us keep track of the distinction, I will use copy(a) and copy(b) to describe nouns where copy(a) is used in the sense of a "professionally created and distributed" copy and copy(b) is used in the sense of something created by copying copy(a).

Copyright law does not give the holder any rights as to the disposition or use of any copy(a) except prohibiting (in most cases; there are exceptions) the creation of a copy(b) of copy(a).

This means I can go to Amazon.com and buy a book, a CD, a DVD, a software package, or download an e-book. In each of these instances, I legally receive a copy(a) of the material. What I do with that material is completely up to me, so long as I do not use it to create a copy(b) - and even then, I may be allowed to. If I want to use the book as a doorstop for my bathroom, I can do that. If I want to use the CD as a frisbee, I can do that. If I want to give the DVD to my friend, I can do that. If I want to sell the software package (unopened) to someone over E-bay, I can do that.

More relevant to the discussion at hand - if I want to put the CD in my CD deck and play it in a random order, rather than the track order, I can do that. If I want to read the book back-to-front, I can do that.

I think the creators' emotions come into play at this point - you wrote a great murder mystery and I'm SPOILING it by reading it back to front! How DARE I do such a thing! Or worse, I'm not even reading it, I'm using it as a doorstop! How could I have such audacity! I'm clearly a heathen! I'm EEEEVIL!

Guess what... when I paid money for that copy(a), you gave up all right as to how I use it, so long as I do not make a copy(b) of it.

Of course, now we have technological measures in place, backed by the teeth of law, that are giving content creators control that they never had before - and I firmly believe "shouldn't have at all." For instance, my in-laws recently purchased a copy(a) of "Shark Tale" on DVD. When you put the DVD into the DVD player, you are forced to sit through about 10 minutes of previews, because the DVD and DVD player disable the "skip" and "menu" functions. Not just the first time - EVERY time. If I accidentally bump the "eject" button, I get to sit through 10 minutes of previews AGAIN. Why? This is analagous to a book forcibly keeping me from flipping directly past the "author's dedication" page and "prologue" in a book to start reading at Chapter 1. Or, if I stop after Chapter 2 to take a break, I have to read the author's dedication page and prologue AGAIN before going to Chapter 3.

As far as I can tell, from my reading of copyright law, Dreamworks has no right to force me to sit through their commericals under copyright law... and since I signed no contract when I purchased my DVD player... and my DVD... they have no right to control the DVD under contract law either. And yet they force me to do it anyway! Why? Because the technology of DVD players allows them to grab these "extra rights" that basic law does not grant them.

Emotionally, they want the right to display their work in the way they want it displayed (and let's be honest here, in the case of commercials, they want to keep burning their freakin' movies into my skull - or more likely, into my kids' skulls - there's no artistic integrity at stake there, only a raw money grab). But they don't have the moral right to do it, nor do they (under existing law) have the legal right to do it... so they make an end run around morals and legality to slip it in anyway. I believe it is asbolutely unethical to act in this fashion - that is, to attempt to take away my "right" to dispose of the copy(a) and view it as I choose.

In other words, DVD studios are acting unethically when they attempt to exercise power they are not entitled to by law. Which leads to this question: is it unethical for me, in turn, to modify my DVD player to ignore the "lock" signals and/or to rip/burn a copy(b) which does not include the "lock" signals in order solely to restore my own use of those rights that were mine to begin with?

You're probably wondering how all of this relates to piracy at this point... it doesn't, exactly, except to point out to you that once you sell/give a copy(a) to someone else, absent a separate contract, you lose control of that copy(a). Emotionally, you don't like that. But that's what happens. In your specific example, you mentioned that "you would give me a copy and that I would agree not to give copies to other people." But you made no prohibition against me taking that copy(a) you gave me and giving (not copying it) to someone else. Would you be mad if I took the original stack of papers and loaned it to my friend to read? And if he loaned it to his friend? And so on, and so on, provided no copy(b) was made of your copy(a)? Over infinite time, the result is the same... everyone reads your stuff (oh, yeah, and nobody pays you for a second copy)!

Anyway, getting back on track as to piracy... I'm of two minds here. Obviously, I'm a PDF publisher, so I do keep an eye out for "pirated" copies of my stuff... not so much to get upset about it (it's kind of like getting upset at the sky for raining when I planned a picnic - there's nothing I could do to stop it and nothing I can do to fix the current problem; all I can do is adjust for the future) as to ask the piraters (when I find them) to please stop. I don't threaten legal action, I just ask them (nicely) not to do it as a favor to me. Usually they ignore me, but at least I try.

However, I feel that the "copyright cartel" on the whole has grossly violated the original social contract that goes with copyright. Copyright was NOT intended as a means to enrich the individual (or corporate entity); rather, it was intended as a means to enrich society by giving society access to information ("To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts" is the clause of the Constitution that justifies the creation of copyright in the first place - not "to enrich the creators of copyrighted material" - and the Constitution states that these should be "for limited times").

I have heard it said that when framing laws, you should not ask, "what will the current political entity (presumably benign) do with this power?" but rather "what kind of havoc could the biggest rat bastard on earth do if given this power" on the theory that even if things are controlled by a benign entity at present, eventually the biggest rat bastard on earth is going to get his hands on it. Copyright is intended as a balance between the greedy rat bastard creators (who want people to pay, preferably through the nose and in perpetuity) and the greedy rat bastard masses (who want it all for free as in beer and as in speech and want it now). Obviously, we can't have NO copyright or the greedy rat bastard creators will have no incentive to create in the first place. On the other hand, we can't have perpetual copyright, either, because the greedy rat bastard masses won't tolerate that.

In the words of Lord Thomas Macauley in Britain's house of commons in 1841 (link: http://yarchive.net/macaulay/copyright.html ) - I use him because he's more eloquent than I:

"It is good that authors should be remunerated, and the least exceptionable way of remunerating them is by a monopoly. Yet monopoly is evil. For the sake of the good we must submit to the evil: but the evil ought not to last a day longer than is necessary for the purpose of securing the good"

We establish copyright in order to make sure that authors get justly renumerated for their works. However, copyright in and of itself establishes a monopoly, and monopolies are, for the most part, evil (not because they are inherently evil, but because a monopoly gives all power over a certain thing to one entity, and absolute power tends to corrupt).

As to arguing about whether information is property, I agree with Macauley: "It is not necessary to go, on the present occasion, into a metaphysical inquiry about the origin of the right of property; and certainly nothing but the strongest necessity would lead me to discuss a subject so likely to be distasteful to the House. I agree, I own, with Paley in thinking that property is the creature of the law, and that the law which creates property can be defended only on this ground, that it is a law beneficial to mankind." After all, in terms of physical property, we can argue about scarcity, but without laws, the "natural limits" of the property one can attain is simply that which you can hang on to and/or defend by physical force and that's not much. ;)

Macauley brilliantly sums up copyright in this way:
"The question of copyright, Sir, like most questions of civil prudence, is neither black nor white, but grey. The system of copyright has great advantages and great disadvantages; and it is our business to ascertain what these are, and then to make an arrangement under which the advantages may be as far as possible secured, and the disadvantages as far as possible excluded.
...
The principle of copyright is this. It is a tax on readers for the purpose of giving a bounty to writers. The tax is an exceedingly bad one; it is a tax on one of the most innocent and most salutary of human pleasures; and never let us forget, that a tax on innocent pleasures is a premium on vicious pleasures. I admit, however, the necessity of giving a bounty to genius and learning. In order to give such a bounty, I willingly submit even to this severe and burdensome tax."
And with considerable foresight, has this to say:
I will only say this, that if the measure before us should pass (lengthening copyright from 28 to 60 years), and should produce one-tenth part of the evil which it is calculated to produce, and which I fully expect it to produce, there will soon be a remedy, though of a very objectionable kind. Just as the absurd acts which prohibited the sale of game were virtually repealed by the poacher, just as many absurd revenue acts have been virtually repealed by the smuggler, so will this law be virtually repealed by piratical booksellers.

At present the holder of copyright has the public feeling on his side. Those who invade copyright are regarded as knaves who take the bread out of the mouths of deserving men. Everybody is well pleased to see them restrained by the law, and compelled to refund their ill-gotten gains.
...
Pass this law: and that feeling is at an end. Men very different from the present race of piratical booksellers will soon infringe this intolerable monopoly. Great masses of capital will be constantly employed in the violation of the law. Every art will be employed to evade legal pursuit; and the whole nation will be in the plot.
...
Remember too that, when once it ceases to be considered as wrong and discreditable to invade literary property, no person can say where the invasion will stop. The public seldom makes nice distinctions. The wholesome copyright which now exists will share in the disgrace and danger of the new copyright which you are about to create. And you will find that, in attempting to impose unreasonable restraints on the reprinting of the works of the dead, you have, to a great extent, annulled those restraints which now prevent men from pillaging and defrauding the living.
I personally think a lot of the problem stems from the fact that, by and large, by continually lobbying to extend and extend and extend and extend copyright, "big business" (and here I am thinking of Disney, the RIAA, and the MPAA) has mucked things up as far as copyright goes - for everyone. People are pissed at "the man" for lengthening copyright to, essentially, perpetuity (my *father* hasn't seen anything fall out of copyright in *his* lifetime, and I don't honestly expect to see anything enter the public domain in 2018... I fully expect lobbying for yet another extension).

The anger that people feel at "The Man" (in the big media congolomerates) then poisons their feelings toward RPG companies, too. Yes, RPG companies are small outfits. Yes, they are, for the most part, manned with good people. But "The wholesome copyright... (shares) in the disgrace and danger of the new copyright" because "the public seldom makes nice distinctions."

Those who infringe copyright of the little guy do so because the whole copyright concept has been poisoned by the "big guy." And you know, I can hardly blame them. Even though I myself have tried to be respectful and open with my work (heck, all my text except the titles of my works, my name and email address are 100% OGC), I can still get a sense of... "hey, copyright holders broke the contract first by getting extension after extension, by getting huge and ridiculously harsh penalties (a typical file-sharer with 200 files on his share directory is liable for more damages and jail time than a serial murderer), and changing copyright from a civil matter to a criminal matter (so big companies don't have to spend their own money pursuing folks; instead, they can spend the governement's money by reporting to the FBI or police)... since you broke your side of the bargain, why should we be expected to keep ours?"

I'm not saying it's right (two wrongs don't make a right). I'm not saying it's properly directed (again, I think it's misdirected anger in the case of RPG publishers). I *am* saying there are some darn good arguments that ethically, the "pirates" are really no worse off than big-time copyright interests (though most RPG publishers have a better "high horse" to stand on). After all, I think big-time copyright interests have trampled the social contract and original purpose of copyright, and having watched them do that, who's to blame the masses for disrespecting copyright altogether? After all, if one side doesn't respect the contract, why should the other side honor it?

That my copyrighted stuff happens to get caught up in the resulting explosion is unfortunate (yes, I didn't trample copyright by demanding extensions, and my stuff is still pretty new, but if "all copyright is to be ignored" I can't expect them to treat me any different just because I'm nice and my stuff is new), but I don't place all the blame on the filesharers, either. If we had "Founding Father" copyright, everything published before, what, 1991 would be in the public domain anyway (except stuff that had been renewed, but even that would only go back to 1977)! That would be a boatload of stuff that people love that would be legally out there, and I think would drastically reduce the amount of bad feelings we see toward the institution of copyright today.

"The whole nation is in on the plot." Look at the sheer numbers on P2P networks. Look at how many people have rip/mixed/burned. Look at how piracy is bringing the copyright industry down - or at least forcing them to drastically change their business model (iTunes, anyone). Slowly, perhaps, but it's happening. The problem is not necessarily the price point on any given book, but rather the attitude in general towards copyright. Clearly, if the whole nation is in on the plot, it's not a reflection of the price of a single book, but rather on the terms of copyright as a whole. I really doubt piracy will go away, no matter WHAT people do, DRM or otherwise, until we see huge and massive copyright reforms that slant things much more favorably toward the public and away from the copyright holder. Given the amount of money copyright holders spend on lobbying, that means "never."

I happen to think the piracy of RPG books is a symptom of a much larger problem. That's why I don't worry myself overmuch about it... the problem, as I see it, is a social/political one - not a technological one - and truly out of my control as a publisher.

--The Sigil
 
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The Sigil said:
I hope this isn't too political, but here goes. I will speak only for US law, since that is where I live and that is the law I am familiar with. Obviously, different regions of the world have slightly different laws...

I just wanted to say that's a good post. I'm not saying I agreed with every single thing you said, but you made a load of damn good points. (So much so, that I don't really have any response).
 

I've been thinking on this subject and it ocurred to me -- there is this place in town where I can freely get a hold of copyrighted materials. Not just electronic, real printed materials. Thats right, I can take them home and read them, and get this, the author doesn't get any money from me at all! I pay nothing and but I get to read full works of copyrighted material.

So I did a little research, and I found that these places are all over the country. Nearly every town and city has one. Think of all the millions of people reading copyrighted stuff/information and all for free. Sure one copy is bought and each location, but hundreds of people get to read it.

I think the government should look into shutting them down. How can authors make a living with this much theft happening. I mean, if I read it I don't have to buy it, so clearly I have deprived the publisher of a sale. I just can't believe this kinda theft, or "freedom of information" as some would call it, is allowed to exist.


==================
El 'yes this is a troll' Rav
 

Brent_Nall said:
I don't think there are nearly that many active users on this system. I would wild-assed guess that there are probably somewhere less than 3,000 unique users of this system each week. So, now we're talking nearly $5.00 per user donated. Of course, most people probably didn't donate. That's fine. If $13,000 was the amount required to run the site, and that's what they got . . . so be it. If they needed more I bet they would have gotten more. If they didn't get the amount needed then that would be clear evidence that EN World is not a viable enterprise.


You're quite a bit off there.


Ignore the "registered users" bit. Only a handful of visitors actually register here. The bulk are unregistered visitors - and we're currently averaging 29,000 unique users per day. I don't know how many that works out to per month, but the stats seem to indicate that Mr. Average visits once every 4 days.
 

Jonny Nexus said:
Erm... when did ask me to submit it for the ENNies? I honestly don't recall that.

By email, about 2 years ago I think.

(Have a horrible feeling this might be one of those "spam filter ate important mail" stories). :(

Sounds like. For anyone who wants a glimpse into what my early years of RPG were like, a very comparable example is presented in Johnny's playtest review of Cyborg Commando on Critical Miss.

It will have you in tears (both kinds):)
 

Teflon Billy said:
Sounds like. For anyone who wants a glimpse into what my early years of RPG were like, a very comparable example is presented in Johnny's playtest review of Cyborg Commando on Critical Miss.

It will have you in tears (both kinds):)

Hey now. I thought that the whole D10 x D10 was...interesting.

Believe it or not, I still have those books! :D
 

this simply isn't true. you would have more labours of love, and a higher perchentage of non-professional (whatever that might mean), but, trust me, you wouldn't see a sudden disappearance of new music, literature, physics analysis, and so on.

A good computer game requires a crew of dozens of highly talented and trained people and millions of dollars to make up front. How the hell would anybody be able to make a good computer game in your 'idealized' society?

Hmm . . . you haven't read the whole thread . . . that's ok. People will continue to create art even if they are not compensated for each copy of their work. They absolutely should be compensated for their effort in creating, conceiving, etc. the work. After the work is published it should be free to anyone to use as they see fit.

Who will compensate them? The magic money fairies? If they don't charge people for their work, who exactly is going to pay them? And don't BS me about donations, people are not going to donate more money than the producer would have made by selling it. Donations is, farnky, an imbeclic response. Very few people are going to donate, humans are greedy and self-centered. If we're given something for free, only a few of us are going to choose to donate money for it.
 

Spell said:
unfortunately, the price the average customer pays for a cd has absolutely nothing to do with what the artists put in their pocket.
by contract they are entitled a percentage from roughly 9% to 20% (some exceptions exist) on the sale price. that, of course, AFTER they have paid back the label to all the recording costs (and even some tour costs, if the label is supporting that) out of that 9-20%. all the albums given for free or stolen do not count. since nobody but the record label is allowed to account how many copies of the album have actually being sold, most of the times the numbers are "adjusted" to the best interests of the labels, unless you go to court and can provide sensible proof that a scam is going on.

please note that this is an *extremely* simplified model. there are so many other variables that people have written thick books on the subject.

so, if you pay 20 dollars for a cd, and the artist is lucky, with an average of 14,5 points, he gets 2,9 dollars in his pocket.


It seems rather popular in internet-lands to pile on to major record labels, financial institutions or any other corporation where the 'suits' stick it to the 'little guy'. To a layman, the role of up-front capital, or access to distribution channels may seem less important than the artistic content of what's being written/preformed.

However the role of the 'suits' is extrememely important. Vital, even. If I offer you access to my distribution channels (with the corresponding tertiary financial benefits that come with them), as well as providing you with the best possible production infrastructure and/or up front money...it's within my right to expect a healthy ROI. The only money an artist loses from producing a dud comes from the time they could have been doing something else -- the record companies are the ones with the real financial stake.

And besides, if the artist has something worth selling, they can always shop around to different labels, and different distribution channels. That's the beauty of cmpetition.

Now...as major media companies continue to consolidate...we approach monopolistic competition environments which does, in fact, take it's toll both artistically, ethically, and economically. That might be a fear down the road, but we're not quite there yet.
 

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