Pissed about the reduction of the Spell Focus Feats

[Zogg]

Are you?

I am. +1 to the DC is pretty lame. Take the charm person spell. A smart wizard or charismatic sorcerer/bard with an 18 in their prime ability is only going to have a Will DC of 14 - that's pretty easy to beat. The 3E Spell Focus: Enchantment feat gives the spellcaster a better chance (16 DC) but it's still not that great. Am I missing something here? I never heard any complaints about the Spell Focus feats being overpowering.

 

[Skaros]

Are you?

I am. +1 to the DC is pretty lame. Take the charm person spell. A smart wizard or charismatic sorcerer/bard with an 18 in their prime ability is only going to have a Will DC of 14 - that's pretty easy to beat. The 3E Spell Focus: Enchantment feat gives the spellcaster a better chance (16 DC) but it's still not that great. Am I missing something here? I never heard any complaints about the Spell Focus feats being overpowering.

Actually, the DC is 15 (10 + spell level + attribute modifier). Add on the version 3.5 spell focus, and it goes to 16.

That assumes the character is low level, with no magic items to enhance it.

At low levels DC 16 is pretty high for a first level spell, particularly one that if successful, makes someone instantly your friend, even if that person would normally have shouted an alarm and run you through with a sword.

Not that I thought a +2 was overpowering, but your example doesn't seem too compelling as a reason NOT to change it to +1.

Skaros

 

[Crothian]

No, it doesn't bother me at all and frankly I am glad for the change.

 

[Shard O'Glase]

I think it is a bad change, they should of gotten rid of GSF. But pissed no, because it was never taken anyways in my games because everyone including me thought it was just too boring. We prefer feats that have an effect beyond just a bonus.

 

[kreynolds]

I think the change is so stupid, and I'm so very pissed about it, that not only will I simply refuse to purchase 3.5, but I will actually go around stealing everyone else's copies of 3.5 and replace them with 3.0. To top it all off, I'll threaten the lives of said person's family, promising that if they try to purchase it again, I'll be making concrete shoes for all of them. By the time I'm done, 3.5 won't see the light of day...and it's all because of Spell Focus.

 

[RigaMortus]

I agree with Zogg. In 3E, Spell Focus feat was a skill I'd consider taking, depeding on the type of caster I wanted to play (for example, a specialist Wizard such as an Enchanter or Illusionist). The 3.5 version I will not ever consider takinging unless I need it to get into a PrC class I am aiming for.

Funny how Skill Focus actually went UP by a point (+3 vs. +2) yet Spell Focus went down by a point (and 2 points for GSF). I think I'd rather take Skill Focus (Diplomacy) and try and talk to my enemies the "hard" way, rather than relying on Charm Person

Ok, not really, but still... I disagree with this change. Saving Throws get better as you level up, a Wizard needed something to keep up with the higher saving throws. Sure he could get magic items that increase his Intelligence, but then that takes away from other items he could use in it's place. Plus, that doesn't help people who play in low-magic settings (like I often do) where these magic items are hard to come by. Or he could boost his save DCs with the animal buff spells for all of 20 minutes at level 20!!! Yeah, that's worth it.

Bad move WotC, bad move.

 

[Darkness]

It's probably my least favorite 3.5 change so far, but I'm not exactly outraged about it, either.
I'll try it out in play and if I find it to be too weak for my campaigns, I'll just rule-0 it to be stronger. And if I find it works fine, so much the better.

 

[RyanD]

I am. +1 to the DC is pretty lame.

When designing anything that affects a save DC, the target that should be considered when determining rule balance is the target most likely to be affected by the spell. That means that in the case of a spell with a Fort save, the conspicuous target is a character with a "bad" Fort Save.

"Bad" saves lag 2 to 3 points behind "good" saves, or roughly six levels. So a +1 to a save DC is the same as six levels of saving throw bonuses against the conspicuous target. +2 to a save DC (GSF) is worth 9 levels of saving throw bonuses.

What that really means in practice (because most encounters match the PCs against opponents of roughly the same power level) is that casters with SF and GSF have a 5% to 10% advantage when casting spells at conspicuous targets.

That's a huge, practical advantage in game for the use of SF and GSF. With the old versions of the abilities, not taking SF and GSF was almost always a mistake (and there's nothing worse than a feat that you absolutely, positively should always take - that's what class features are for.) Even with the revised values, pure spellcasters will probably still take them, because the advantages they offer are so significant.

 

[Kae'Yoss]

can't..... resist.....

I think the change is so stupid, and I'm so very pissed about it, that not only will I simply refuse to purchase 3.5, but I will actually go around stealing everyone else's copies of 3.5 and replace them with 3.0. To top it all off, I'll threaten the lives of said person's family, promising that if they try to purchase it again, I'll be making concrete shoes for all of them. By the time I'm done, 3.5 won't see the light of day...and it's all because of Spell Focus.

You have every right to be so angry. And if you didn't do such a thing (or send mail bombs to the designer who made that change), someone surely would (there's always one).

I do think that this will cause the whole western economy to collapse. In 3 years (4 years tops) we will all live in small secluded villages, without electricity or running water, and have to defend against wild animals (that all of a sudden returned in force - even the specieses who were thought to be extinct). And all the time the eastern nations will proster, laughing about our miserable fate and taking over the world and known space, plunging everything into a dark age with their weird customs and religions.


So it is clear that Spell Focus Revised Will Kill Democracy!

 

[Kae'Yoss]

Seriously, I'm not too happy with that myself (IMO the worst change I have heard about so far), but it's not that bad, and they won't do such a thing without a reason.