Pixies

[3d6]

I had a pixie in a game I ran. It was a problem character. The lack of hit points combined with the damage reduction, spell resistance, and invisibility meant that the character either took no damage or was killed in every fight. I wouldn't allow a pixie character again.

 

[Elethiomel]

I've run pixies without problems, in two different games. Things to watch out for:

- Flying and invisibility at low levels can be a killer combo for many published adventures. It's a killer information gathering device.
- 60' Flying and invisibility combined with rogue sneak attack at higher levels can be a killer combo against monsters that don't have invisibility seeing capability and 30' movement or less. If your NPCs are planning on using standard locomotion to retreat, a pixie can make this impossible, let alone if that rogue can use sneak attack every round.

Barring these caveats, I don't think pixies are a big problem. I've run them at levels 1-12 (in one campaign - I made up my own savage progression as I didn't have access to Savage Species) and 12-15 (in another). If the PC pixie retreats when confronted with things like a ticked off, vengeful Erinyes with Cold Iron arrows for her bow, insta-death is not so common. If the PCs become famous, NPCs who see their goals opposing those of the party will invest in invisibility-seeing stuff. If the Pixie is a Rogue, area effects will probably not be a big worry because they gain Evasion at ECL6, and with that DEX they're way ahead in Reflex saves.

The PC will need to watch out for enemy spellcasters. These are particularly problematic because not only can they often see the pixie, they also do things that require Will or Fortitude saves. These two saves are, IMO, the weak points in the pixie rogue build, not their hit points (assuming a cautious player).

Edit: Keep in mind:
Even if the pixie did not take damage in an encounter does not mean that the encounter was not dangerous for the pixie. What I said above is true if the player is smart enough to keep the pixie out of HP-harm's way, which a pixie player should. This means that the pixie PC is expending resources (actions, items) to keep out of harm's way that another character wouldn't need. High-LA races without serious CON bonuses will function radically different from other kinds of characters and GMs and players who are used to gauge an encounter's difficulty by what amount of hit points and spells characters are left with after battle may have a hard time understanding how to play / how to challenge such characters.

 

[Old Gumphrey]

The pixie has a racial adjustment to charisma of +6 so that means that this rogue pixie had a base charisma score of 20? That could mean a starting 18 with a +2 item though.

In order to get +10 with the bow that will take a dexterity of 28. It could be a +1 bow though and the pixie does get a +8 to dexterity so that would bring the starting dexterity down to 18.

What method are you using to generate the characters statistics? It looks like there are two 18's right there!

It's possible to get six 18's using the standard rolling method. I don't see why two are so unbelieveable. It's a masterwork bow, but you're correct on both counts.

Easy there, tiger.

In your initial post, you wrote as if you were allowing the pixie as a beginning PC. PCs begin at level 1, so...... I'm glad to see you're up on the whole ECL thing. Many, many, many people are confused by it. Many.

You've got the answer to your initial question: Pixie PCs don't automatically gain the magical arrows. It's in the rules text. Done.

Next!

Well...she is a beginning PC. She's beginning at ECL 5, joining a game already in progress.

Unfortunately, it's not "in the rules text". There's no reason pixies automatically get the arrows, but there's also no reason they don't. It says pixies sometimes have them. It is completely vague and completely open to interpretation. It's likely that since they are absent from the "Pixies as characters" entry, banning the arrows will not affect her ECL at all.

There are no pricing guidelines anywhere in the core rules for such items, nor are there any precedents; therefore, one can't say with perfect certainty that they absolutely do or do not get the arrows. The fact that there are people that hold every opinion on my poll, plus a few more, proves that. If my poll said "do hobgoblins get +2 con?" every single person would vote "yes" because that is concretely stated in the rules text. This is not.

If hobgoblins "sometimes carry bazookas" then it stands to reason that they may or may not start with one, and they may or may not be able to access them at a later date at the heavy anti-tank weaponry deposit.

I've run pixies without problems, in two different games. Things to watch out for:

- Flying and invisibility at low levels can be a killer combo for many published adventures. It's a killer information gathering device.
- 60' Flying and invisibility combined with rogue sneak attack at higher levels can be a killer combo against monsters that don't have invisibility seeing capability and 30' movement or less. If your NPCs are planning on using standard locomotion to retreat, a pixie can make this impossible, let alone if that rogue can use sneak attack every round.

Barring these caveats, I don't think pixies are a big problem. I've run them at levels 1-12 (in one campaign - I made up my own savage progression as I didn't have access to Savage Species) and 12-15 (in another). If the PC pixie retreats when confronted with things like a ticked off, vengeful Erinyes with Cold Iron arrows for her bow, insta-death is not so common. If the PCs become famous, NPCs who see their goals opposing those of the party will invest in invisibility-seeing stuff. If the Pixie is a Rogue, area effects will probably not be a big worry because they gain Evasion at ECL6, and with that DEX they're way ahead in Reflex saves.

The PC will need to watch out for enemy spellcasters. These are particularly problematic because not only can they often see the pixie, they also do things that require Will or Fortitude saves. These two saves are, IMO, the weak points in the pixie rogue build, not their hit points (assuming a cautious player).

Edit: Keep in mind:
Even if the pixie did not take damage in an encounter does not mean that the encounter was not dangerous for the pixie. What I said above is true if the player is smart enough to keep the pixie out of HP-harm's way, which a pixie player should. This means that the pixie PC is expending resources (actions, items) to keep out of harm's way that another character wouldn't need. High-LA races without serious CON bonuses will function radically different from other kinds of characters and GMs and players who are used to gauge an encounter's difficulty by what amount of hit points and spells characters are left with after battle may have a hard time understanding how to play / how to challenge such characters.

Tons of good information there for me and others, thanks. I tend to design encounters where a player's abilities are necessary, not where they overpower things. I mean...letting someone play a character with wings and then being caught off guard when they fly over a wall is kinda silly. Make the only way to get where they're going be available because someone can fly over the wall undetected.

The point of this thread was to get an overall gist of just exactly what I'm getting myself into, and it's pretty much exactly what I guessed: depending on your group's playstyle and your player's ability, the pixie can range from uber-broken to terribly underpowered.

I believe I'm going to allow later access to the arrows if she proves to be underpowered. If, however, she proves awesomesauce, then I'll withold them indefinitely since she will not need any extra boosts...and because the precedent for sleeping is based on HD and I really don't like the idea of the arrows.

 

[Slaved]

It's possible to get six 18's using the standard rolling method. I don't see why two are so unbelieveable. It's a masterwork bow, but you're correct on both counts.

I did not say it was unbelieveable. My point was that having 2 18's makes a character very strong already. If the rest of the stats were also any good the character would be very tough regardless of the choices.

A warrior with straight 18's is a whole lot tougher than a fighter with all 10's for a very long time after all. Maybe forever.

In this case if the character had put a 10 into charisma instead and the save for the poison was 15 that would not be as bad for a 5th level character right? It may just be the characters incredibly statistics which are making it seem bad.

Really high statistics can change just how tough a character is. If he has a point buy value of 80 then he may actually be the equivalent of a character a couple of levels higher or more!

 

[Nail]

There's no reason pixies automatically get the arrows, but there's also no reason they don't.

Other than normal PC wealth guidelines? Yer right!

It says pixies sometimes have them. It is completely vague and completely open to interpretation.

Good thing you're the DM then.

It's likely that since they are absent from the "Pixies as characters" entry, banning the arrows will not affect her ECL at all.

Yep.

There are no pricing guidelines anywhere in the core rules for such items, nor are there any precedents;

Not true! Try the Magic Item section in the DMG. They give pricing guidelines for making custom magic items there.

If hobgoblins "sometimes carry bazookas" then it stands to reason that they may or may not start with one, and they may or may not be able to access them at a later date at the heavy anti-tank weaponry deposit.

In the new monster manual (MM IV) they have a spot to record a monster's equipment, if any. In MM I, they didn't bother, unless the equipment (weapon or armor) was special. The Pixie's arrows are such special equipment.

 

[JiffyPopTart]

We has a PC pixie in our AoW game. For a very short while.

Its natural invisibility and lack of HP meant my warmage accidentally killed it with an Ice Storm without even knowing it was there.

DS

 

[Gerion of Mercadia]

Playing a pixie is all about striking unseen.

If you run into nearly ANYTHING that can hit you - and hit you at low levels, you die, plain and simple.

Pixie vs Sorcerer 4 - no problem... see invisibilty + Magic Missle or Melf's Acid Arrow or Scorching ray = dead pixie.

You have all the classic problems of running a character with Low HP - VERY low HP.

What happens is a game more along the lines of "stealth warfare". To shoot a stealth aircraft down is easy. Picking it up on your radar is the hard part.

 

[Christian]

Unfortunately, it's not "in the rules text". There's no reason pixies automatically get the arrows, but there's also no reason they don't. It says pixies sometimes have them. It is completely vague and completely open to interpretation. It's likely that since they are absent from the "Pixies as characters" entry, banning the arrows will not affect her ECL at all.

Absent from the "Pixies as Characters" entry? Why, so they are!

Pixie
Special Attacks: Spell-like abilities, special arrows

Pixies as Characters
-Special Attacks: Spell-like abilities

What could be more clear than that? I know, a specific statement that the PC pixie doesn't have special arrows. But barring a statement that they do, I can't see why you wouldn't go with what's listed.

There are no pricing guidelines anywhere in the core rules for such items, nor are there any precedents; therefore, one can't say with perfect certainty that they absolutely do or do not get the arrows. The fact that there are people that hold every opinion on my poll, plus a few more, proves that. If my poll said "do hobgoblins get +2 con?" every single person would vote "yes" because that is concretely stated in the rules text. This is not.

Well, it's pretty obviously a piece of equipment, isn't it? Or is your theory that pixies magically extrude magic arrows from their bodies?* As the DM, you can set prices for the item to whatever you think is reasonable; or, if you like the pixie PC having these signature items, you can rule that she has a limited (or unlimited!) supply. Or, if you really hate them (as you seem to), you can rule that they're only available from pixie lords, who supply them to pixie warriors defending the pixie homeland, and the PC isn't. And maybe the vagueness in the listing is there precisely to give the DM that latitude of letting their PCs play pixies without necessarily allowing abilities into the game beyond his comfort level.

If you're not comfortable with those arrows flying around in your game, then either don't allow the character, or don't allow (or severely limit) the arrows. The rules give you the option to do either, both, or neither, whatever works best for you. So don't sweat it so much--figure out what'll be most fun for you and your player, and do that.

*Body part from which the arrows are extruded intentionally left to the reader's imagination.

 

[Old Gumphrey]

How are all these pixies dying of reflex save area spells? Are they just that unlucky that the first time they get caught in one, SR fails and they roll a 1 on their save?

EDIT: Nevermind, Ice Storm...but why are you flinging Ice Storms when there's friendly pixies afoot? And that still doesn't explain the ones dying by fireball.

What could be more clear than that? I know, a specific statement that the PC pixie doesn't have special arrows. But barring a statement that they do, I can't see why you wouldn't go with what's listed.

The "X as characters" are not rules unto themselves, they are summaries of the rules blocks directly above them. "Pixies as characters" doesn't specifically state that they are fey; as a matter of fact, it says that they lose their fey HD in exchange for their class HD, leaving them with no racial hit dice at all. This is the only case of this I know of. Ogres keep theirs, as do trolls. Therefore, technically speaking, pixie characters do not have a creature type at all, unless their creature type is their class.

Which is what happens when you try to follow this entry verbatim. Think it was Slaved that said the entire entry is just too vague. Ok, so even if PC pixies never ever come with those arrows and that's a "rules quote"...how many arrows does an NPC pixie come with? One? One of each? A quiver full? A quiver full of both kinds? Can one of them chase a party for miles and put them all to sleep and erase all of their memories, then hire someone to beat them silly and deposit them in different places around the world, causing an effective TPK?

Nerf pixies.

 

[Nail]

Ok, so even if PC pixies never ever come with those arrows and that's a "rules quote"...how many arrows does an NPC pixie come with? One? One of each? A quiver full?

Check out the orc entry in the MM. You'll note orcs have "javelin" listed in their weapon entry, as a ranged attack. How many javelins does an orc warrior have? One? A quiver full?

Check out the drow elf entry, page 103. Which of the drow's weapons have poison on them? One? All? A quiver full?

A balor has a +1 vorpal longsword, and it's listed as a (Su) ability. If the Balor sells his longsword, does he immediately gain another? A quiver full?

Etc.