Plagiarism from D&D in Shadowlands, by Peter Straub [minor spoilers]

[Pielorinho]

If it 'ruined the book' for you, I am really really sorry, and hope you never start reading actual classics - they continually make allusions to things, sometimes far more obscure then these, other times very easily and plainly spotted.

Rav

Thanks, Rav, for the English lesson. I'm well aware of how allusions work. May I repeat myself?

I did not understand how this one was supposed to work.

For all we know, Straub put those spells in there for a reason, whether that was agreeing or disagreeing with the Magic system of D&D.

Pretty sure that's not it -- as I said, the spells were there in name and level only, and "level" as a concept didn't map exactly to the D&D concept even.

Perhaps he is (sort of) on "Jack Chick's side

I doubt it -- having read the book, I can attest that Christianity is mentioned only in passing, and in a mocking tone.

or, diametrically opposed, he wants to prove the religious fanatics, who claim spell use is evil, wrong.

Again, doubtful: magic doesn't come across as a particularly positive force in the book.

I'm thinking I came to the wrong place here: I forgot how many people are willing to offer their opinions on books they've not read.

If anyone has read the book, what did you think of that aspect of it?

Daniel

 

[Henry]

To my recollection, plagarism isn't proven until a certain percentage or more of the work in question is proven directly copied from source material. Now, trademark infringement might be a different story, but to my knowledge those terms were not ever trademarked by TSR, and even if they were, once those terms are not defended after a certain length of time, they become public domain, do they not?

When Gary was in control of TSR, it was not generally a sue-happy company, and only after he lost majority control sometime in the early 1980's did the management prosecute various suits.

 

[Ravellion]

If anyone has read the book, what did you think of that aspect of it?

So why didn't you ask this question to begin with? Your first post actually was poorly worded (especially, as Henry already put forward, the use of the word plagiarism) if you wanted a reply on what people thought about that passage, instead of, what I gathered, the possibility of plagiarism in the use of spell names. Even though I haven't read the book, the information you gave me was quite sufficient to reply regarding that.

I think it would be a good idea to edit your first post, unless you want more replies which will be more or less equal to mine... I am not the only English lit. major here.

Rav

edit: typo

 

[herald]

Alright Rav,
Everyone knows that ideas as they are being typed out on this board aren't always well thought out all the time.

As an English Major you might want to read a little more deeply to get at the point that he was driving at.


Pielorinho,
I'm sure that Peter Straub is aware of D&D and that the list of spells might be a "tip of the hat" to fantasy readers who read his book as well as one of the many D&D novels that are on book shelves across the world.

But as others have pointed out, Vance had a 9 level magic system before D&D ever did and by that stroke, it would be a hard case to make that anyone could defend that a list of generic spell names could be defended in a court of law.

So, his spell list could include things like, "Sleep" and "Fireball" and Lightning Bolt." Those words are in common parlayance and fair game.

Spells Like "Mordenkainen's Fantastic Widget" would not, because the Character belongs to WOTC, and by that extention Hasbro.

 

[Pielorinho]

Rav, I apologize if my OP wasn't clear. I do, however, appreciate people giving me the benefit of the doubt, rather than making snarky comments about how I need to get on with my life, what bad things will happen when I read real classics, etc. My OP was asking for context around this thing, not for a critique of my reading skills etc.

I realize that this doesn't rise to the legal definition of plagiarism (is there such a thing?) I also realize that that's not stopped TSR in the past -- remember when they tried to remove all D&D-related Web sites in the mid-90s?

I'm looking for context, is all. It's possible, of course, that Straub was basing his levels of magic off of Vance, which somehow seems less absurd to me; does anyone know whether Vance invented the spell Invisible Stalker, for example?

Daniel

 

[herald]

I know that he had prismatic spells. I don't know about the Invisable Stalker though.

 

[Templetroll]

here are some spell names from Vance

Xarfaggio's Physical Malepsy ...
Arnhoult's Sequestrious Digitalia ...
The Spell of Forlorn Encystment ... (Imprisonment in D&D?)
Khulip's Nasal Enhancement ...
The Excellent Prismatic Spray ...
Phandaal's Critique of the Chill

This is a link to a site that allows you to make up such names for spells. There is supposedly a Dying Earth RPG to be made but I cannot find any other info about it.