Play Is Paramount: Discuss

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

I want to applaud the ENWorld community to find a new and interesting way to argue about, basically, nothing, for dozens of pages. In retrospect, "my analogy makes more sense than your analogy" should have been part of the classic line-up all along.

 

[Maxperson]

Yeah. This is why we can't have nice metaphors. As someone else has said well upthread, if we're going to treat cooking as the equivalent of play--if it's the group activity--then shopping or recipe finding/writing will be the equivalent of prep.

Except it won't be shopping. And not because we can't have nice metaphors. Rather it's because group play consists of taking the ingredients(prep) I add to the mix(dungeon layout, monsters, NPCs, treasure, etc.) and the ingredients the players add(PCs), and then together making something great to eat(Hopefully an adventure we talk about for years).

Shopping would be pulling out the books, deciding on the play location, buying dice to use, etc.

 

[Maxperson]

Here you go. The first one was a post in which I’d also quoted you… you responded only to the part addressed to you which was about the clumsiness of the cooking analogy.

These are about comparing play of a game with prep for play of a game and then using elements of a game for another, unintended form of play.

Not everything that happens before a game and is related to it is actual game prep. Setting up a soccer field for play is akin to the DM pulling out the books, dice, providing a table to play on, etc. That's not the same prepping the adventure via the RPG rules, which is what I'm talking about.

The DM using the rules to prep for the game is using the rules to play the game, albeit a solo aspect of the game.

The following includes an example that kind of points to the absurdity of describing all engagement with a hobby or activity as “play”.

I don't agree. Especially since I have not been just calling it play, but rather solo play by the DM and group play at the table. Differentiations in the type of play going on. Calculus, algebra, geometry, and basic math are all........math. However, the distinctions allow it to all be math without obfuscating things.

I think that the elements of RPGs are distinct, and that those distinctions matter. That prep is one thing and then play at the table is another. When discussing these things, those distinctions matter. Any given game may expect prep of one type, and then play will be something very different. And then another game may expect an entirely different type of prep, and yield play that’s also very different.

To simply classify these things all as play obfuscates rather than illuminates and seems to be supported solely to assuage those who think their preferences are being attacked.

Aside from that, I don’t really follow the reason for lumping prep of all sorts and analysis of all sorts and discussion of all sorts as well as radically different activities like miniature painting and so on under the umbrella of “RPG Play”.

Can you explain what purpose that serves?

I think the distinctions matter as well, which is why I have been making.................distinctions. DM solo prep play vs. group play. The purpose you are asking me to explain is a Strawman, as I've not been arguing for some vague "play" to just cover everything. I can't explain something I have not argued and don't agree with. You'll have to ask someone who is arguing in that manner.

 

[hawkeyefan]

Not everything that happens before a game and is related to it is actual game prep. Setting up a soccer field for play is akin to the DM pulling out the books, dice, providing a table to play on, etc. That's not the same prepping the adventure via the RPG rules, which is what I'm talking about.

The DM using the rules to prep for the game is using the rules to play the game, albeit a solo aspect of the game.

This makes no sense. The rules of soccer dictate the size of the field and the placement of the lines for the goalie box and the mid-field and so on. All of it is per the rules.

I think the distinctions matter as well, which is why I have been making.................distinctions. DM solo prep play vs. group play. The purpose you are asking me to explain is a Strawman, as I've not been arguing for some vague "play" to just cover everything. I can't explain something I have not argued and don't agree with. You'll have to ask someone who is arguing in that manner.

Here’s your initial post with this cooking metaphor.

Cooking involves getting out the ingredients(game prep) and chopping/mincing/dicing/etc. the ingredients(more game prep) and then tossing all of those ingredients(game prep of individual monsters, traps etc. into a dungeon) in with the final ingredient(PCs) and then heating, cooling, etc.(group play).

Cooking is the perfect example of how D&D play works. Prep is play, too.

“Prep is play, too” is what I disagree with.

The point of cooking is for everyone at the table to enjoy adding to the food being prepared.

This is a really bonkers definition of cooking!

 

[soviet]

I put some of the things said in this thread into ENWorld's AI superbrain and it said '502 Bad Gateway'

 

[Fenris-77]

I put some of the things said in this thread into ENWorld's AI superbrain and it said '502 Bad Gateway'

I've been getting this error a lot in last day.

 

[Maxperson]

This makes no sense. The rules of soccer dictate the size of the field and the placement of the lines for the goalie box and the mid-field and so on. All of it is per the rules.

And D&D dictates dice, rulebooks, etc. That doesn't make getting them out adventure prep. You're conflating things.

Here’s your initial post with this cooking metaphor.

“Prep is play, too” is what I disagree with.

Ok.

This is a really bonkers definition of cooking!

Not in the context of RPG play.

 

[soviet]

Any definition of cooking, that isn't a definition of cooking, isn't a definition of cooking.

 

[hawkeyefan]

Not in the context of RPG play.

Well, sure… if you change the definition of cooking to fit your metaphor, then sure, it’ll fit.

It’ll just no longer mean what it always has.

I feel like someone dosed me with some particularly strong acid.

 

[prabe]

Well, sure… if you change the definition of cooking to fit your metaphor, then sure, it’ll fit.

It’ll just no longer mean what it always has.

I feel like someone dosed me with some particularly strong acid.

I feel as though someone is trying to tell me I'm not saying what I'm saying. At least being dosed with acid could plausibly be fun.