Player 1 'grabs and pulls' player 2, then claims it's 'Forced movement, no AtOp'

[DracoSuave]

Now, now... don't sell yourself short, Draco. When you're wrong, you're usually at least SIX times as wrong.

See what I mean?

 

[malraux]

More seriously, if it were me, I'd go with either Rule of Cool/Do Something Awesome personally. The person pulling the character out is at least giving up one standard action to do this, so its clearly not unbalancing at the table.

Clearly once the trapped ally was grabbed, the rules clearly support the idea that the grabber can pull the grabbee without provoking an OA as a standard action. Since the rules don't really cover grabbing a willing target, to me it makes sense that it should be easier/ faster than grabbing an unwilling target. Making it a minor seems to make sense to me, though rules support for this is obviously not there.

Actually, what I would do is just assume that the grabber can easily snag the trapped character and I'd make it Athetics VS the trap's Fort or Acrobatics VS the trap's Ref, with a hit resulting in some damage/disabling of the trap as well as pulling the character free. Alternatively, a skill vs the mummy with a success freeing the trapped character, while sliding the mummy into the trap, taking damage and penalties as appropriate, because doing something cool is always the right answer.

 

[Saeviomagy]

If anything, I think that requiring two standard actions to pull a friend out of danger is too much. I'd probably allow "drag a grabbed target" as a move action (still requiring a roll). That also lets you do things like grab a foe and pull them off a cliff with you, or grab the evil ritualist and pull him away from his sacrifice, or any number of things which are every bit as awesome.

For a reference, powers which slide allies around are almost always minor or move actions, and powers which slide foes around usually layer damage on top of the slide, so taking a power to do this sort of thing is usually the superior option.

 

[Kerranin]

Forced movement...

Forced. As in, forced? Not willing? How is this complicated? You don't have a choice, you're forced?

The problem here is that WotC mean forced movement as 'the thing is being moved'; even if the target agrees to being moved, it is being moved, not moving under its own power. => Forced Movement

If you don't like the RAW, then house rule it and let the players know your house rule.

Sorry, but this really isn't about the rules, this is about your unwillingness to be wrong.

 

[Neonchameleon]

Forced movement...

Forced. As in, forced? Not willing? How is this complicated? You don't have a choice, you're forced?

Forced as it is defined in the rules. If you are sitting in the passenger seat of the car you are every bit as subject to forced movement from the car's engine as if you are locked in the boot.

How is this not making sense to people?

Because forced movement is a technical term defined in the game rules.

Pulling and pushing allies around was not meant to be something that could be done with a mundane grab.

Pulling and pushing allies around through a grab is defined in the game rules. The grab hits and they don't resist. So yes it was meant to be done.

 

[mudlock]

Not going to dig through the whole thread (because, wow) but, Ninja-To:

If the "two standard actions to do this" isn't a high enough cost for you, and if you don't want the players to be able to move out like that, this is what you do. You say:

"Oh, did I say the sand immobilizes? I meant 'restrains.'" Go look it up.

 

[Spatula]

I can understand a power doing this, but I disagree that this kind of 'pull' is the same as a 'Pull' (not the capital). If this is true then players and creatures can 'pull' each other all over the battlefield anytime they don't want their allies to take opportunity attacks.

Using a standard action to move another PC 2-3 squares doesn't sound like a very useful tactic, OAs or not.

Also, this is *not* 'forced movement' if the friendly player is allowing it to happen, is it?

It is indeed. As an example, when a bard uses Majestic Word to heal someone, he/she can slide the target, which is a type of forced movement. There's quite a lot of effects that allow one to slide your allies around the map.

edit: I see that I was ninja'd on the bard example!

 

[frankthedm]

I ruled there's no way that counts as forced movement, as it didn't come from a power or an effect as stated in the forced movement rules in the PHB.

Good ruling. The character has every option NOT to go with when hanging onto the allied weapon.

A lot. I mean, a lot.

Then get rid of them. You are the one running the game. They make an ass of themselves because you won't rule in their favor, boot them. Even if you were not correct on the rulling, their willingness to behave in that manner is reason enough to be rid of them.

 

[Dice4Hire]

For me this owuld boil down to what and how many actions were being sued. If the players thought that a single move action by one player was enough, I would say no.

It it were a standard action, I would probably allow it.

Costing two standards, though by the rules, seems to be a bit much for me.

 

[Saeviomagy]

Good ruling. The character has every option NOT to go with when hanging onto the allied weapon. Then get rid of them. You are the one running the game. They make an ass of themselves because you won't rule in their favor, boot them. Even if you were not correct on the rulling, their willingness to behave in that manner is reason enough to be rid of them.

How dare players dispute your quibbling on the use of the terms "power" and "effect"! How DARE they!