Player asked for a favour: MC Barbarian-Warlock

[DEFCON 1]

The DM, like any umpire, needs to be CONSISTANT in their rulings.

If you allow one player to have something but not another, it looks like favouritism, the players will quite justifiably get pissed off, and find themselves another DM..

Good. I wouldn't want those whiners playing with me anyway.

And no... not all DMs NEED to be consistent. Some of us have the capability to make two different rulings about the same exact thing at two different times and still maintain a fun and challenging game without pissing the players off. Partly because we play with mature adults who are flexible, and partly because we know how to make reasoned decisions and can explain our reasonings quite reasonably.

I feel sorry for any DMs out there who feel they need to maintain a lockstep catalog of every ruling they have ever made lest their players revolt in disgust.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

Good. I wouldn't want those whiners playing with me anyway.

And no... not all DMs NEED to be consistent. Some of us have the capability to make two different rulings about the same exact thing at two different times and still maintain a fun and challenging game without pissing the players off. Partly because we play with mature adults who are flexible, and partly because we know how to make reasoned decisions and can explain our reasonings quite reasonably.

I feel sorry for any DMs out there who feel they need to maintain a lockstep catalog of every ruling they have ever made lest their players revolt in disgust.

If consistency isn't important to your players, why do you bother with rules at all?

It sounds more like freeform collaborative storytelling would be more appropriate for your group. All this rules nonsense obviously constrains your creative freedom!


And you haven't explained HOW you would go about banning the elven accuracy barbarian hexblade. At what point do you say "NO"?

 

[DEFCON 1]

If consistency isn't important to your players, why do you bother with rules at all?

It sounds more like freeform collaborative storytelling would be more appropriate for your group. All this rules nonsense obviously constrains your creative freedom!

Ah yes! The old "Well, I can't find any reasonable answer to his point, so I'll just throw out the furthest extreme possible in an effort to save face!"

Good job! Great response!

And you haven't explained HOW you would go about banning the elven accuracy barbarian hexblade. At what point do you say "NO"?

I wouldn't necessarily say 'no'. I'd look at what this particular player wanted to do with their character... look at the mechanics they were hoping to use... question them as to why they wanted to use X, Y, and Z together and if it was truly necessary... and then quite possibly go along with it for the time being and see how it plays, knowing full well that I am more than capable of challenging said player regardless of the numbers they have on their character sheet.

And then if it turns out that X, Y & Z together does cause issues, then we'll make a change. Which the player will accept, because they are a mature adult who understands what we are all trying to accomplish at the game table and will recognize why what they originally wanted is not helping that.

Again, if anyone does not have that kind of table and players... first of all, I'm truly sorry. And second, remaining consistent in everything you do I guess becomes an unfortunate necessity and I don't envy you. I hope you can eventually find a table and players when that rigidity isn't a 24/7 requirement, because I find DMing is so much more fun when you can all loosen up and just have fun without worry about someone threatening to walk.

 

[tglassy]

He doesn’t need to ban it, because by not breaking the rules and allowing the barbarian’s rage to key off of Charisma, its a non issue. Breaking that one rule, allowing rage to be Cha based, allows for certain combos that break the game, and would just need to be banned. Don’t break the rule, don’t need to ban anything.

 

[Caliban]

I'd probably require them to take a custom feat in order to allow the charisma rage and reckless charisma (thus requiring them to take at least 4 levels in one of the classes before multi-classing).

Charismatic Rager - Requirements: Ability to Rage or Pact magic. Benefit: When When using Rage or Reckless attack, melee weapon attack rolls that use charisma also gain the benefits.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

Ah yes! The old "Well, I can't find any reasonable answer to his point, so I'll just throw out the furthest extreme possible in an effort to save face!"

Good job! Great response!



I wouldn't necessarily say 'no'. I'd look at what this particular player wanted to do with their character... look at the mechanics they were hoping to use... question them as to why they wanted to use X, Y, and Z together and if it was truly necessary... and then quite possibly go along with it for the time being and see how it plays, knowing full well that I am more than capable of challenging said player regardless of the numbers they have on their character sheet.

And then if it turns out that X, Y & Z together does cause issues, then we'll make a change. Which the player will accept, because they are a mature adult who understands what we are all trying to accomplish at the game table and will recognize why what they originally wanted is not helping that.

Again, if anyone does not have that kind of table and players... first of all, I'm truly sorry. And second, remaining consistent in everything you do I guess becomes an unfortunate necessity and I don't envy you. I hope you can eventually find a table and players when that rigidity isn't a 24/7 requirement, because I find DMing is so much more fun when you can all loosen up and just have fun without worry about someone threatening to walk.

You are supposing fore-knowledge you wouldn't have.

Your player has a level 2 barbarian (who happens to be an dark elf) and they are levelling them up to level 3, and they ask you if they multiclass to hexblade can they use Charisma with Reckless Attack. You say "sure, fine".


Six months later, the character is level 9 barbarian/1 warlock, and you find they are laying waste to all around them rolling three d20s for every attack and critically hitting 15% of the time for 3d12+4 (I'm assuming a greataxe). THEN you say "wait a minute, this is broken, you know when I said it was okay to use charisma with reckless attack? I've changed my mind".

If that doesn't make the player rip up their character sheet and look for a different game, "mature" isn't the word I would use to describe them. "Brain-dead cattle" seems closer to the mark.

 

[DEFCON 1]

Six months later, the character is level 9 barbarian/1 warlock, and you find they are laying waste to all around them rolling three d20s for every attack and critically hitting 15% of the time for 3d12+4 (I'm assuming a greataxe). THEN you say "wait a minute, this is broken, you know when I said it was okay to use charisma with reckless attack? I've changed my mind".

What the hell do you think I was doing for those 6 months? Why on earth would you think that all of a sudden six months into the game and a complete 7 character levels later a light would suddenly go on and make me go "Wait, what?!?" Don't just just handwave away 6 months as though I've been blind and dumb the entire time and not paying attention.

Why not try making an example of how things are playing out at Level 4 and how I'm reacting to it? Because THAT'S a much more likely scenario of me starting to see how my player's PC is running. And then, once you've done that... I will tell you quite simply and succinctly how I and my player would probably work it out.

 

[cooperjer]

I have a player who enjoys the number crunching in the game. He gave himself a challenge to make a fiend pact of the blade warlock into an enjoyable combat character. Through bending a couple rules in access to magic items (i.e. buying +2 weapons) and rolling stats the character is very strong in both the combat and social interaction pillars of the game. In fact, my sorcerer player is frustrated that her spells are nearly useless once the warlock character and barbarian character enter combat. Or if the warlock character enters into a social situation where there might be a skill challenge or critical persuasion roll.

I feel that allowing the barbarian to use charisma as a combat stat will make the character very strong in both the combat and social interaction pillars of the game. This will keep the spotlight on the character longer. Depending on the type of game you are running and the players you have, this could lead to some jealousy by other players. In general, I feel the barbarian class excels at combat and not much else as designed. I've seen in my home game, and my AL games, that a barbarian at the table makes combats much easier to address. The barbarian does not help in social encounters or exploration challenges. If you game is heavy in combat and social interaction and the class can rely on charisma to deal damage then that character will most likely shine the brightest.

 

[shadowoflameth]

I would say leave the class features as they are. When Raging the Barbarian gets his +2 damage if he uses strength. The HexBlade power allows him to use Charisma instead instead of strength for attack and damage rolls, and he can do it when raging. He gets the +2 damage, and if he focuses on charisma he can get a strong attack bonus and damage with that one weapon. The trade off is that it can't be two handed and it has to be that one weapon. Remember too that as a MC Character he's losing levels of Barb in exchange for an unusual combo of abilities. He can eldritch smite but not cast spells when raging. Reckless attack he can do too and I don't see a problem with using these together. I like the concept. IMO it would be fun to try.

 

[Wrathamon]

No.

Can I fuel my rage with Dex so I can be a barbarian rogue?

How about INT so I can be a barbarian wizard?

make a barbarian warlock and deal with the MAD. It will still work and be fine