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Player backseat DMing

Tinker Gnome

Adventurer
Well, i am sure a lot of you here are familar with the troubles i have had with my older brother. Now, it is not something he is doing out of game, but in game. Okay, here is the situation. Some oozes break free from a mine, and his Neutral Good Cleric of Lathander just runs away. Not even bothering to help. He constantly hits the Paladin of Lathander in and out of game. And does not seem to RP his uy like a follower of the sun god. I have let it alide, because despite the fact that he claims his is a heavy RPer, he is just a hack and slaher. So, any ideas what to do about his character?

EDIT: Not ot mention giving me a bunch of unneeded information before the game. Although my brain usually goes on wander mode when he starts doing this.
 
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Camarath said:
If he is not living up to the ideals of his God I think you should make him an Ex-Cleric untill he atones.

I suppose the only problem with this is that he will whine, and emphasize the neutral part of his alignment until he gets what he wants. He has been like that all his life. Even my parents say so.

And no, not playing with him is not an option due to circumstances beyond my control.
 
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Trying to change his behavior is pointless.

I suggest allowing him to change his faith to become a Cleric of a more appropriate deity for his roleplaying capabilities/preferences.

Everyone will be more happy that way. He may learn to become a better situational roleplayer in time, with good examples to follow - or not. But if this change would result in everyone at the table having more fun, allow it with no penalty.

Bonus points for you if you can make the change seem like his idea, and he "owes" you for allowing him to make the change.
 
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Galeros said:
I suppose the only problem with this is that he will whine, and emphasize the neutral part of his alignment until he gets what he wants. .
Emphasize the Good part of his God's alignment and tell him to stuff it.
Galeros said:
He has been like that all his life. Even my parents say so.

And no, not playing with him is not an option due to circumstances beyond my control.
Well it is probably to late to change his behavior now so just ignore him or let him talk to Mr. Fist, that usally works with my brother (who I game with by the way).
 


He's your brother, right? Kick his a**! :D

Seriously, I would take away his highest level spells for a week (or a few days at least) and make it known to him that he's on thin ice w/ Lathander. If he still shirks his responsibilty to the doctrines of his patron deity I say you dump Quest on him, make it something the other players will not like - something that takes away wealth from the party or something that is nothing but a big monkey wrench in their current objectives. Kinda hard to adventure with a Cleric that has NO spells. Let the peer pressure work on him - this way you're only part of the "heavy."

Besides, you can say "I' ain't heavy, I'm your brother!"

(I know, I know - like you didn't see that one comin'..........)
 

It's his older brother guys. So I don't think he will be "introducing him to Mr. Fist" or "kicking his a**". Ah, the Tyranny of older brothers!
 

Cordo said:
It's his older brother guys. So I don't think he will be "introducing him to Mr. Fist" or "kicking his a**". Ah, the Tyranny of older brothers!

Hmmm, here's a thought. Get your dad to join and have HIM kick your brothers backside lol :D
 

Galeros said:
Well, i am sure a lot of you here are familar with the troubles i have had with my older brother. Now, it is not something he is doing out of game, but in game. Okay, here is the situation. Some oozes break free from a mine, and his Neutral Good Cleric of Lathander just runs away. Not even bothering to help. He constantly hits the Paladin of Lathander in and out of game. And does not seem to RP his uy like a follower of the sun god. I have let it alide, because despite the fact that he claims his is a heavy RPer, he is just a hack and slaher. So, any ideas what to do about his character?

EDIT: Not ot mention giving me a bunch of unneeded information before the game. Although my brain usually goes on wander mode when he starts doing this.

Bolding mine... I'm somewhat confused, as the title of your thread suggests an out of game problem you have with your brother, but your actual text seems somewhat unsure- focusing first with what he's doing in character, and later pushing it to an out of game issue, with how he's not a big RPer.

It seems that your problem is with your brother, but your bottom line is asking how to address your problems through dealing with his character. As far as I am concerned, his character does not need addressing as much as he does. If your problem with him revolves around him backseat DMing, tell him. Say things like "Please don't tell other players how to roleplay" and if he's not too too much bigger than you, lean over and dead arm him (kidding).

As for his character running away, and being a hypocritical, critical Cleric... that's something for the paladin to address, not you, probably not his church, and most likely not his god. A lot of clerics are abject cowards... a lot of them get to a certain point in their lives where they've done what they need to do and sit back, watching the world turn and face new problems, only to shove level 1 characters out there to deal with it while they sit in their temples. Unless Lathander's church is specifically all up on the heroism, the dying for one's faith or even just dying to kill whatever random encounter is before you... I wouldn't do anything in terms of game mechanics to punish him. I'm not terribly up on Lathlander, but I don't recall any lines revolving around "Dont be a chicken, you big baby" and there's most certainly no line that states all good or neutral clerics have to be nice, upright, fair, faithful to their companions, and brave in the face of dangers great and small alike. Unless you say otherwise, either in the context of you agreeing to DM, or in the context of the changes you've made to certain churches, having a disagreeable personality as a character is not necessarily something to be thumped by DM Fiat. Let the characters leave him to die, let them pack up their bags in the night while he's sleeping in a tavern and leave town without him, or let them simply say "We don't want you, Name_of_Cleric, coming with us this time. We're going to find someone more agreeable."

Furthermore, DMs have to be Very careful about setting this kind of precedent (Dont Run Away, Fight Everything) in their games. If you punish player characters for running like hell, even against things they can't handle, you should expect them to die and die often. You won't be able to justly throw at them things that you want them to avoid, like you could with a mentality of "well, if they feel outmatched they can always try to get away."

Plain and simple, if you don't want coward characters or jerk characters, say so and offer him the chance to either bring in a new one or rework how he plays the other one. If you don't want jerk players, tell him what you expect and what you don't at the table. If he can't handle it, regardless of if he's your brother, you can tell him to stay away from the table until he's ready to play nice. Not to reinforce stereotypes, but many siblings interact that way all the time... "if you keep being mean, I won't play with you if I can avoid it." It may be nothing new and almost easier doing to a brother than a friend.
 
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