D&D 5E Player feedback: Deserved Easy Win or a Satisfying Win?

[Blue]

But I am a player?

Im confused.

You were giving DMing feedback - how to change an encounter. Not something a player can do. Your response only made sense in a DM role.

As a player the question is: would you want me to increase the difficulty in the ways you were suggesting to make a big arc-ending boss battle tough and satisfying because the hse taken sessions to research and prep and make allies that will make it much less climatic. Or would you want to celebrate the time you put in and have a moderately easy win (still not easy, but not boss-battle tough).

 

[Blue]

If the party has well-planned for their win, that's a good thing and they should be rewarded for it.

At the same time, if you do want to spice things up, there's always the "no plan survives contact with the enemy" and "things don't go smooth". That is, some unexpected, unaccounted for action by someone else can throw a monkeywrench into the plans - not countermanding the player's plans, but threatening to complicate things if they aren't dealt with appropriately (many heist movies use this subplot to create tension and drama to an otherwise "perfect" plan - such as Ocean's 11).

Bad weather hits unexpectedly, threatening to delay the party from arriving on time. Someone at court offends the duke and he orders everyone out and the party has to find another way in. Someone overhears part or all of the player's plan when they accidentally walk in on the characters, and has to be dealt with. One of the duke's sicophants challenges a PC to a duel, suspecting treachery.

Even if you don't go with any of the above, there's always the fallout what happens AFTER the duke is outed. Likely, he has supporters or allies who will not take kindly to the duke being offed, and may not believe the PC's story. There may be a spouse or offspring that attempt to avenge the duke's death - righteously or not. Other elf-haters may take up the duke's banner, either avoiding the PCs or seeking them out. Perhaps even elves may become wrathful learning the dukedom was willing to employ a demon to wipe them out, and the PCs may have to deal with stopping a war against or reprisals by the elves.

Yes, I understand what I can do. I am asking if you were a player in that game, which would you prefer more: my behind the scenes toughening the battle so the several-sessions-long extensive prep/research/allies the players have done moves it from nigh-impossible to boss-battle-tough, or leave ti as it is where their work has moved it from boss-battle-tough to Pretty winnable.

The question is not "how can I run this", the question is "as a player, which way would you want me to run this if you put in sessions of prep"? What's the most rewarding?

 

[J-H]

So, if you were a player and had invested several sessions in getting allies, information, and such about a big bad, and using that turned the conclusion of the arc into a fairly short fight because you were Batman-level prepared, would you feel great about it or would you feel like you wasted time and shouldn't have put in that much research and prep?

As long as you specifically highlight "He tries to X, but you already Y" every single one of the BBEG's preparations, and explicitly and directly point out how their planning nullified his plans, then that is a very satisfying win.

 

[Flamestrike]

As a player the question is: would you want me to increase the difficulty in the ways you were suggesting to make a big arc-ending boss battle tough and satisfying because the hse taken sessions to research and prep and make allies that will make it much less climatic. Or would you want to celebrate the time you put in and have a moderately easy win (still not easy, but not boss-battle tough).

Yeah of course I would. There is an unspoken pact that youre there to make the sessions fun and challenging.

Steamrolling encounter is kind of boring.

I want my actions to matter, but that's not the same thing as cakewalking them.

 

[Blue]

Yeah of course I would. There is an unspoken pact that youre there to make the sessions fun and challenging.

Steamrolling encounter is kind of boring.

I want my actions to matter, but that's not the same thing as cakewalking them.

That's what I was looking for player opinions on, my original thoughts were along with yours. But general consensus of the other players here are as long as the nerfs are obviously tied to the character's previous actions they should benefit from the prep and make it easy.

 

[MarkB]

Yeah, I'm with the majority here - any effects that the players' excellent prep and planning may have, up to and including negating the climactic battle entirely, will feel like a win to them.

 

[Swarmkeeper]

As a player, I’d appreciate our careful planning to pay off tangibly to some extent. I also wouldn’t fault the DM who then threw us a little unexpected curveball to turn the cakewalk against the BBEG into some semblance of a challenge - additional minions or lieutenants or unforeseen lair actions or the like.

 

[Mort]

That's what I was looking for player opinions on, my original thoughts were along with yours. But general consensus of the other players here are as long as the nerfs are obviously tied to the character's previous actions they should benefit from the prep and make it easy.

Out of curiosity- what IS the level of challenge likely to be (with what the players have done) assuming you don't buff it? Is it going to be an "easy" encounter now, or still medium or hard (or even a slightly less deadly)?

Would it have been a "deadly" encounter without all that they did to mitigate?

Just curious and looking for a fuller picture.

 

[Mort]

Yeah of course I would. There is an unspoken pact that youre there to make the sessions fun and challenging.

Steamrolling encounter is kind of boring.

I want my actions to matter, but that's not the same thing as cakewalking them.

While I agree "boring" is bad, here the encounter is much easier ONLY because of the actions taken by the players. And it might still be challenging, just not ridiculously so (now).

Adding in extra because you feel the encounter is now "too easy" kind of cheapens that.

 

[Flamestrike]

While I agree "boring" is bad, here the encounter is much easier ONLY because of the actions taken by the players.

And the question I would ask myself as DM is 'What are the negative consequences of those actions'.

It's likely that news of the PCs activities (information gathering, propaganda campaign in town, magic rituals etc) have reached the ear of the Duke, so (presuming he now knows) that there are highly capable PCs out there, actively conspiring against him, what steps would he take to protect himself?

That actually encourages the players to think even more deeply about the issue, makes their actions matter even more, and maintains the challenge of the encounter.