player killing?

[Plane Sailing]

Well, that's PS for you: Plain Slaughtering....<=kidding.

I ought to make it clear that I was a player, not the DM in that incident You'll be able to read about it in a forthcoming episode of Steppe Stories, readable here


The DM admitted afterwards that he hadn't expected several of the aspects of the ambush to turn out the way that they did. The PK was the 7th level illusionists top spell, and remarkably none of the other PC's died, although all but one were very, very close to it.

It's just a good job that the encounter took place in grasslands, that's all I'll say

Cheers

 

[Plane Sailing]

Well, that's PS for you: Plain Slaughtering....<=kidding.

I ought to make it clear that I was a player, not the DM in that incident You'll be able to read about it in a forthcoming episode of Steppe Stories, readable here http://enworld.cyberstreet.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=42984


The DM admitted afterwards that he hadn't expected several of the aspects of the ambush to turn out the way that they did. The PK was the 7th level illusionists top spell, and remarkably none of the other PC's died, although all but one were very, very close to it.

It's just a good job that the encounter took place in grasslands, that's all I'll say

Cheers

 

[Videssian]

For me, the latest TPK happened last sunday.

Four 1st level PCs, charging, one after another, into the "pit of death". Unlike PS, I go for moderation: I used a 2nd lvl sorcerer. Of course, he had a Save or Die spell readied to cast on who ever came down the ladder. No initiative roll necessary....and 1st level PCs have just abysmal Will saves.

Fortunately, the PCs came down in ones and twos, with significant pauses inbetween. That way the sorcerer could ready another Save or Die spell for the next one down...

Wait, did I say "fortunately"?

*grins*.. as one of the players, the dwarf who was first down the ladder, I
must say that we had the most ATROCIOUS luck with those saves!

> Originally posted by Vaxalon
> What save or die spell did a 2nd level sorceror have handy?

The players read these boards, so I'll heve to keep that under my hat for now. But really, it's no stroke of genius on my part, nor is it some wacky splat-book offering.....

The point is, I guess, that against low level parties, a low level spell-slinger (<3rd) can easily cause a TPK. Kinda scary, really.

I'm guessing here that it was either Color Spray or Sleep.. both require a will
save and both would be more than adequate to take out us individually as we
came down that ladder.. (and none of us are elves)..

I know that if I'd been Thaile (the last in line) I would have NOT/no way in the
nine hells! gone down, I'd have run back to town.. but then again, in that
instance I'd have been playing a certain rogueish type that I have in mind
as a replacement for Riva.. Thaile, unfortunately, was just as brave as
poor Riva the dwarf (first down the ladder)..

It was a fun session though! At least we know now that stupidity could
get us killed..

 

[Agback]

G'day

My worst débacle was in a campaign in which the PCs were explorers from Earth's 1930s who had been accidentally transported to [a Golden Age of SF version of] Venus. The idea of the campaign was that they had to travel halfway around Venus (which was very primitive) to get to the transporter that would take them to Mars, then halfway around [a Golden Age of SF version of] Mars to get to the transporter that would return them to Earth (but in the antipodes of their point of departure). The idea was that if any PCs got killed (not that I expected any of them would) he could be replaced by a local who would join the rest of the Earth-men.

In the first adventure the PCs boarded a sailing ship on the oceans of Venus, and the crew (part-time pirates) holed up (or perhaps holded up) below decks. The players decided not to pursue them, just to take control of the ship.

"Well," I said "The cargo consists of wild animals intended for the arena, and the crew let some out on deck in the night, but you don't have any trouble blowing them away."

"How much ammunition do we use?" asked one clever player.

"There are a dozen of the beasts, so you spend about three dozen rifle rounds: call that seven rounds each."

"It would never take that much!" said the clever player.

Argument ensued.

"Okay" I said "We'll play it out. Make Scan rolls, and remember there is no moonlight on Venus."

They had a few unlucky rolls at *very* unlucky moments. Despite the fact that the beasts weren't really all that formidable, all five PCs died, and the campaign collapsed.

Regards,


Agback

 

[Holy Bovine]

A couple of months ago one of the players in my just finished CoC campaign succeeded in rolling a 1 on a drive check. He succeeded in killing the whol party of 5 people in a car cash.

Talking about major bummer. We all felt so crappy after having everyone die is such a sucky way we refrained from gaming for a whole month to get motivated again to reroll characters and to get them back in the game. After playing characters a long while and see them go out this way... auw...

You reminded me of one fo the very first CoC games I ever played in. It was at a tournament and we had to go to a mansion on the outskirts of town to explore it at the request of our employer. In order to sneak up on the mansion the driver of our car turned off the headlights of the car and drove 'by instinct'. He had a really high score it but that didn't help him when he rolled a 01.

The result? We hit a cow and everyone in the car was injured and/or killed. We then feared the mansion and its Cthonic Moo-Cow guardians!

 

[Sarellion]

I killed my party in a GURPS game. It was an SF game and they attacked an alien (Kzin/Catpeople) raiding party looking for precursor artifacts. The kitties had mechas, we had a tank and a helicopter, accompanied by another tank or so.

Our heroes attacked the kitties heads on and our pilot found out that his rockets were unable to damage the mecha, because of a anti missile system. So he flew nearer in 5 miles range to use lasers.

Meanwhile the tank crew attacked with the main gun nearly knocking out the knee of the enemy mecha, but the coward hid it behind some rocks. So they too drove with full speed, blasting away.

What our heroes did not kow was that the mecha had some short range missiles (not much fuel, engine or electronics, just a shaped charge warhead), creatively ripped of Battletechs LRM 20.
Each mecha had 2 launchers with 20 missiles. Each missile only 6 pounds of weight. So tiny and harmless....

As our heroes came in range, the launchers opened and fired a hailstorm of 40 rockets at the chopper and the tank.

Hm, the chopper could not evade and the tank just took.

So lets see, that many rockets, so much damage rolled, shaped charge reduces effect of armor, ah 64000 points of damge...whoops

Needless to say, nobody survived and the DM has been teased about it until this day.

By the way, the commander ordered that the scout will be inside the tank, to be safe from enemy fire instead of driving around in stealth suit and stealthbike...she still says she could have survived

 

[Kichwas]

Re: Justifiable TPK? I think so.

I think every DM should throw in a few encounters that are WAY out of the PC's league once in a while, and if they choose to stand and fight, so be it.

I still get players who solidly believe they have an inherant right to victory over every conflict no matter the circumstances.

It's very dangerous when you're also a player at the same table as them, you start playing the game looking for an escape route.

As a GM, I think in all my years I've only actually killed off one PC in a legitimate conflict. During one of my first 3E games. That may sound like a very strange track record when I say I've been mostly a GM since 1982...

But most of that time has been spent doing super hero games, or games in genres where you try to avoid the conflict. In supers I've had plenty of KO's. Right now I'm averaging one per session. Those are kind of like kills, they would be if we were dojng fantasy...

The most hair-raising battle I ever ran was in Albedo. Nobody died in the two rounds of conflict, but the hail of sudden bullets and massive injuries on both sides left the players a bit shell-shocked. They opened an air-tight door on a moon base and the rabbit on the other end was ready with a machine gun. He let loose a hail of bullets and every PC but the guy standing right there at the door who opened it went down in that first shot... That PC fired back and destroyed just about everything in the room beyond except the guy in front of him he was trying to hit, and one of his allies who had been out of the way at the time.

No deaths, but they were all out of fighting capacity in a round. The second round was a short exchange of fire and then a desperate attempt to close that door on both sides until they could regroup...

I've managed to get a whole group of PCs to go at it against each other in Palladium fantasy once. A randomly rolled band of goblins... which I introduced as a group of 'goblins merchants' walking down the road in broad dyalight with overflowing packs of assorted pedler's goods... The groups passed each other and then both circled back to track the other in the night. The PCs couldn't find the goblins and gave it up, but the goblins found the PCs and waged a two day assault of terror using the one sword, one bow, and one ring of invisibility they had between them all to convince the PCs that other PCs were secretly attacking them or robbing them in the night... By the end of the conflict the remaining PCs were huddled in a cave peering into a raining forest beyond in sheer terror never having figured out the true nature of their opponant and still waiting to be stabbed in the back by their cave mates...

Abough half of them went down if I remember right, but none by the direct hand of any of my NPCs.



Now... I have had some -invalid- kills. When I was about 12 or 13 I was running a group of 9th level pcs through a dungeon I'd put together and at one point I just had them all make saving throws and then announced that all but one had just died from the breath of a red dragon... I consider that unfair because I gave no warnings there were any dragons on hand, nor any chance for the PCs to take an action that would have let them avoid the conflict. So I don't really count that encounter in my list. It was just after I'd started gaming anyway, back in the days when I read the treasure table for Orc, noted the 1-3000GPs, and thought that meant per orc and not per tribe...


Where I really get players these days is in my red herrings. I seem to have a natural talent for them. With the exception of a module I ran about a year and a half ago every plot I've done in the past few years has gotten totally sidetracked by the PCs falling hook, line and sinker for red herring... I've been wondering if I should even bother prepping adventures anymore, because the PCs always fall for the ruse anyway and we end up in a totally new adventure while the main threat gets away with it all...

If you're ever sitting in a game I run, and your hero comes across a bank robbery... stop paying attention to the guy in the costume running out with a bag of money, and look for the old lady crossing the street a block down... If you pay attention, you'll see why... but they never do.

 

[Wraithdrit]

Re: Re: Justifiable TPK? I think so.

I still get players who solidly believe they have an inherant right to victory over every conflict no matter the circumstances.

It's very dangerous when you're also a player at the same table as them, you start playing the game looking for an escape route.

This brings up a GREAT point of discussion. Do they? Do the players have the right to win? Is this inherent in the game? Note the DMG suggests 10% of encounters be over the top challanging where the players either flee or use some other plot device to avoid direct confrontation.

So I guess most of us agree that players should be able to 'win' at the adventure, if played smartly, etc. But have you ever played in a game where the DM set everything in motion and let the players loose on it? I did. It was very fun, but DAMNED dangerous. We had to think so damned hard it was not even funny. It took place in a city where slavery was legal, and the temptation on many peoples parts was to try and free the slaves. We bumped into a slave caravan in the wilds and tried doing just that... scroll up to my comments about a near total party wipe out to see what I mean. We were outnumbered, outclassed, and out thought. It was a slaughter.

So anyways... players have the right to win? Suppose it depends on the campaign. Myself, I like heroics. I want the players to do well, but I certainly will give them enough rope to hang themselves with.

- Wraith

 

[Vaxalon]

Right to win? No.

Do the players have the right to win? Is this inherent in the game? Note the DMG suggests 10% of encounters be over the top challanging where the players either flee or use some other plot device to avoid direct confrontation.

That's my thought on the matter. There are very dangerous things out there, and to me the world seems more interesting if the PC's encounter them from time to time.

 

[Wraithdrit]

But are your adventures designed with the hook already there to get out of the encounter? Or do you ever just trust the players to come up with something? I have a very good friend who is a VERY good DM and tells me that at times he just sets up the encounters, ignoring the players, and lets the players actions define what happens. If the players come up with something really clever then he smiles and rolls with it. If they completely lose their brains and start firing magic missiles he gets this really determined sort of 'oh, you wanna mess with me eh?' look and goes the NPCs start going postal. Its truly a lot of fun, and VERY challenging.

- Wraith