D&D 5E player knowlege vs character knowlege (spoiler)

[Guest 6801328]

if only there was some sort of skill that helps with this sort of thing. Maybe something that provides insight into someone’s intentions. Hmm

Yeah. You can definitely let the dice tell you how your character "should" act in these situations. (That's what I was referring to as the "marionette" earlier.)

Me? I'd much rather feel like I'm there, in the moment, and just go with whatever I think is true.

 

[Guest 6801328]

so if the player reads the entire module and uses it to bypass bad things and go for the good stuff only do you reward them there too?

Definitely.

Reward them with critical changes to the module.

 

[Cadence]

Bizarrely, there have been posters here who claim that they can happily re-run the same module, with the same group of people, and have a lot of fun. Apparently because they're "so good at roleplaying" that they can easily separate player/character knowledge.

Reward them with critical changes to the module.

I mean, I've run B2 at least a half-dozen times, sometimes with the same player and assume most of the players went through it at least once. But it never occurred to me not to pre-emptively put in critical changes.

Edit: I meant to imply agreement. That does seem bizarre to not change it!

 

[MikalC]

I disagree. If I know trolls can only be killed by fire and acid, I get four choices:

1) Use fire and acid because my character thinks it might work.
2) Use fire and acid even though my character wouldn't know to use it.
3) Use fire and acid because my character would know to use it.
4) Don't use fire or acid because my character don't know what.
5) Don't use fire or acid because I think my character wouldn't know what.

Personally, I don't think anyone can differentiate between 1 and 2 or 1 and 3.

How does someone who's already read the MM meaningfully arrive at option 1?

man If only there was some way to showcase preexisting knowledge a pc could have outside of metagaming as a player. Man like I dunno, some skills about nature or arcana or religion Or even history, or maybe being a favored enemy of a class.
Damn, since there isn’t I guess you’re right, there’s no way to meaningfully arrive at 1!

 

[iserith]

so if the player reads the entire module and uses it to bypass bad things and go for the good stuff only do you reward them there too?

"It's what my character would do."

 

[Guest 6801328]

I mean, I've run B2 at least a half-dozen times, sometimes with the same player and assume most of the players went through it at least once. But it never occurred to me not to pre-emptively put in critical changes.

Yeah, sure.

The claims I am referring to didn't include critical changes, though. The claim was that they don't have to change anything and they can still enjoy it because they're such good roleplayers. (I mean, they didn't explicitly say that last part, but that was the very strong implication.)

Maybe I'm imagining this; not really planning to spend an hour or two crawling through old threads.

EDIT: But even if the critical aspects are changed, is it really as fun the second time? If the DM leaves the floorplan of the dungeon the same, is it truly as exciting each door and turning each corner? Can anybody really "pretend to forget" so effectively that it's just as much fun the second time?

 

[Guest 6801328]

man If only there was some way to showcase preexisting knowledge a pc could have outside of metagaming as a player. Man like I dunno, some skills about nature or arcana or religion Or even history, or maybe being a favored enemy of a class.
Damn, since there isn’t I guess you’re right, there’s no way to meaningfully arrive at 1!

Are you suggesting that letting the dice tell you how to roleplay is "meaningful"? I would argue it's purely mechanical and entirely devoid of meaning. I mean, sure, it works functionally. It's just not meaningful.

 

[Mort]

Bizarrely, there have been posters here who claim that they can happily re-run the same module, with the same group of people, and have a lot of fun. Apparently because they're "so good at roleplaying" that they can easily separate player/character knowledge.

You know,

There might be some modules where it would be fun to "Groundhog Day" them. Which, of course, is the exact opposite of not using pre-existing knowledge. It would be an interesting way to run a meat grinder (like Tomb of Horrors) with the party getting brutally killed until they have the "perfect" run through.

 

[Cap'n Kobold]

I consider the sort of information you’re talking about to be part of describing the environment. What the weather’s like is obviously so. I, as DM, will generally describe the general environment of the campaign milieux at the beginning of the campaign, which would include things like the mayor’s name or whether it’s known that there are bullettes nearby. This information is known generally by the inhabitants of the area because they are present in that environment and is very different from information a player might seek to ask me for based on their character’s unique backstory. I realize that some DMs feel that it’s important to control character backstory to one extent or another, but I’m very hands off in that regard, so I will usually respond to such inquiries by asking the player to divulge details about their character’s backstory that would give them access to such information, which they are free to invent. So there’s definitely information available to all the players, but they don’t have to ask me for that (unless I’ve forgotten something) because I’ve already told it to them. This is why that type of question can be annoying, because it implies that I haven’t done a good enough job of describing the environment when in actuality it represents an effort by the player to gain information that’s not present in the environment without risking their character in any way.

Some of it is describing the environment, in an increasingly fractal fashion as players focus on specific things.

We generally use knowledge checks to determine whether a character knows something, often because the player does not. If the player thinks that their character should automatically know something, they will generally mention it, but often they're more happy to roll to find out.

 

[billd91]

EDIT: But even if the critical aspects are changed, is it really as fun the second time? If the DM leaves the floorplan of the dungeon the same, is it truly as exciting each door and turning each corner? Can anybody really "pretend to forget" so effectively that it's just as much fun the second time?

Yes. Every run through is a bit different. You can take different approaches to see how things turn out.
Does it surprise you that there are people who seek out spoilers for TV shows, movies, and books because it's not the surprises that they like - some find it stressful - but rather enjoying the trip in getting there. It's not that different. You may remember some of the reveals, but that just lets you focus on the rest of the play.