Player Problem, need advice

[MarauderX]

Bait him, trick him, trap him, kill his PCs until the litter of character sheets transends imagination and his ill judgement and poor decisions become legendary, even among these boards, something that Gary Gygax himself would look down upon and say... "Dude, what were you doing?"

I actually like this type of player sometimes. You can see the dizzying heights that they feel with the most over powering uber-PC for their level, then watch him crumble when you use the same tactics against him, or worse, use peons to bait him into each and every trap. His frustration may reach new highs, but you and the other players may find a silent satisfaction in his increased failings. And kill then re-kill his PC.

Use something simple... like things that do Con damage (I like stirges myself) or traps that incapacitate him for an extended period unless he can answer a set of riddles. Or throw things at the party that the uber-PC can't do a thing against, requiring other PCs to save the day. Have alignment be a factor in bypassing damage reduction, or make the BBEG impervious to all types of damage except from a certain element (i.e. water or electricity). Watch the uber-PC barbarian struggle to put a dent in the super mud golem you throw at them and have the meager wizard strike it down with a lightning bolt that does 3x damage to it. Oh yeah, don't be afraid to kill said uber-PC.

And feel free to go here for more:
http://enworld.cyberstreet.com/showthread.php?threadid=47525

 

[DragonLancer]

I'll be nice.

As I read it, your and your player's problem with this guy is that he knows the rules, likes the rules, and makes characters that are effective in combat.

More effective than the other players characters.

It sounds more like you guys are jealous of his ability to make powerful characters within the rules to me.

The key question that must be answered to see if the guy can fit with your group is:
"Can he roleplay at all? Does he attempt to roleplay his character at all close to what the other players do?"

Jealous? No. Not at all. The majority of the group, myself included, just doesn't play this way. We never have and probably never will do. Different styles, basically.

I have said in a recent discussion on these boards that I feel his style (lets call it roll-playing for thats what it is) is wrong. Perhaps a bad choice of words there, but its just not how the rest of us play. The problem is that because the rest of us are not into uber-ing up their characters, it becomes difficult to set out a suitable scenario. Any combats are either too easy for him, or just a player kill waiting to happen to the others. Theres no middle ground.

He does role-play, although its usually via a chaotic alignment. He hates the idea of heroic or good characters, prefering a sort of anti-hero all the time.

In all honesty, I think that a different group would suit him better, but the town where we live there are not many gamers. He might even do well learning to DM, but I would bet money that his style would match his gaming style, and would not be of interest to rest of the group.
I wouldn't want to force him to play to the rest of the group, because he wouldn't enjoy it, but we're stuck with the same issue.

Ultimately, it just comes down to a difference of gaming styles.

 

[random user]

I understand exactly where you're coming from. I have a wizard who took exotic proficiency: hand crossbow and has somewhat built his character around a fascination with hand crossbows. As a result, he's also burnt some skill points into being able to make a crossbow.

As a weapon, frankly, the hand crossbow sucks. I'm working with him on ways his character will improve the hand crossbow over time, but at the moment a min-maxer looking at this build would say "This character is crap. What a bunch of useless crap he has." Yet, his quest to build a better hand crossbow is a great story, and he's one of my favorite characters, and his quest has given me several plot hooks.

 

[ph0rk]

I actually like this type of player sometimes. You can see the dizzying heights that they feel with the most over powering uber-PC for their level, then watch him crumble when you use the same tactics against him, or worse, use peons to bait him into each and every trap. His frustration may reach new highs, but you and the other players may find a silent satisfaction in his increased failings. And kill then re-kill his PC.

How in the hell is that supposed to help him fit into the group?

To the original poster: Does he participate in noncombat situations? Every character has a specialty (assuming the player hasn't gone off the flavor deep end) this one's just happens to be combat.

However: unless you restrict them to core classes and 28 point buy, then the level of 'creative multiclassing' can get quite insane. With high enough stats, a bit of 3rd party material goes a very long way.

There isn't anything wrong with multiclassing or building a character with a few specific feats/abilities in mind; but it is -not- a good idea to introduce a player like that into a game where the other characters have stats that look like 50-60 point buy and every base class from Dragon is allowed - you will just open up far too many options to the character builder; many of which they would be unable to combine to such effect were the ability scores more tame, and the classes to choose from relatively balanced (i.e. core).


If you discuss it with him (via email if you'd prefer not to do it in person. Hell, it it works for dumping girlfriends... ) and he doesn't wish to adjust, you'll all be better off to split.

 

[DragonLancer]

To the original poster: Does he participate in noncombat situations? Every character has a specialty (assuming the player hasn't gone off the flavor deep end) this one's just happens to be combat.

Yes, he does participate in non-combat situations, but he gets easily bored when he doesn't have the opportunity to kill something or someone. I know the guy can roleplay - when he puts his mind to it, he can be quite good. It's just that he views the 3.x rules as being build purely for combat as far as I can see.

However: unless you restrict them to core classes and 28 point buy, then the level of 'creative multiclassing' can get quite insane. With high enough stats, a bit of 3rd party material goes a very long way.

My group uses the 4d6-L for stat generation. We don't like PB and I don't use much in the way of 3rd party books except for monsters and what I want to use from the setting we play (Dragonlance).

There isn't anything wrong with multiclassing or building a character with a few specific feats/abilities in mind; but it is -not- a good idea to introduce a player like that into a game where the other characters have stats that look like 50-60 point buy and every base class from Dragon is allowed - you will just open up far too many options to the character builder; many of which they would be unable to combine to such effect were the ability scores more tame, and the classes to choose from relatively balanced (i.e. core).

He's not introduced (unless I'm reading your post wrong), he's being playing for 2 years, and participated in both this campagin and the last from the start. I'm strict on what PrC's are allowed (I believe that any PrC must fit the setting so 99% of them are out the window before they get a chance), and the same goes with 3rd party feats and spells (again only those from the setting we play get used).

If you discuss it with him (via email if you'd prefer not to do it in person. Hell, it it works for dumping girlfriends... ) and he doesn't wish to adjust, you'll all be better off to split.

If it comes to it, I'll do it in person. More polite that way i think. Hopefully, it won't come to that.

 

[BSF]

Dragonlancer,
This guy just is not fitting into your groups gaming style right now. You can choose to cut him loose, or you can choose to work with him on it and try to find a happier middle ground.

You have noted that he appreciates min-max builds and is unconcerned with character background, etc. You have also noted that he likes to play the anti-hero. It sounds like your group does not facilitate this style of play.

As an alternative, think about starting a new campaign with some pretty specific limitations. Require that the group needs to be very good, and needs to be able to work together. Note that working together does not require that everyone is bright, shining happy people holding hands, it is people that know and respect that everyone on their team is working toward a common Good goal, but each person might have differences in opinion on how to achieve that. I have seen great RP in politely working out differences of opinion. If the player is interested in remaining with the group, he can accept the limitations and will still be able to min-max the dickens out of everything. Just be sure you enforce the must work together part. At the first hint of dissension, the group's patron will kick the offender out. Structure at least some of the challenges so that the solution requires complementary strengths from all of the characters. Now, this does not mean the big bad combat monster in one room, the trapped & locked door in another, etc. This means that the solution to the puzzle requires each character to do something that only they can do at the same time. Occasionally give each character a chance to shine individually, but be sure that the emphasis is on the group.

It is a bit heavy handed. It has the potential to miff your other players as well. But, it will give you the opportunity to bring the player in question into the fold. Or, the player will determine that he needs more of the lone-wolf uber-cool character attention and that he isn't going to get it from your group.

So, my suggestion is to either liberate his gaming opportunities with a group that is more his style, or to try to grow him to be more compatible with your group.

 

[MarauderX]

How in the hell is that supposed to help him fit into the group?

Did I say it was? What I was getting at is making the player realize (since he is relatively new to the game) that there is always something out there that can kill his PC. It's the little things to make the PC mortal again compared to the others. Entire sessions shouldn't ever be focused around it, it's just that the player needs to get over the PCs he creates and stats he can generate. It has always helped me get everyone more to the same 'style' of gaming more quickly.

Next, of course, is to ask why every gaming group needs to be perfect? Why toss out the odd ball? Because he can make a melee monster? To me that's not a solution.

 

[Saeviomagy]

It really just sounds like he knows how to make a combat character, and the rest of you don't. Creating an effective combat character shouldn't get him chucked out of the group.

What perhaps should is that if he constantly derides the other players and destroys their fun.

Tell him he's being offensive about his criticisms.

If you honestly don't care about the combats, then there's not really a problem when his character takes them all on and the others stand back, is it?

 

[DragonLancer]

Its not a case of we don't know how to create that sort of character, its that we don't want to. The group considers that sort of game to be rather twinky (no offence to those who like that sort of game).

We have the style and level of game we like to play, which we enjoy, but this guy plays pretty much the level of game as portrayed in the core books.

 

[RCanning]

I have recently found this to be a problem with one of the players in my group, and I have come to a realisation....

I tend to run pre-published modules, for two reasons; first, I don't have that much preperation time; and second, when I write something I tend to do it like I am doing something for publication, and it takes forever.

Anyway, so I use pre-published adventures, and this was the problem. Most places out there published adventures tend to have a slogan like "Third edition rules, first edition feel". Necromancer Games, Goodman Games, Dungeon, the WotC adventures.. they all fall into this category. The great thing about 3rd Ed is that characters aren't just combat machines. The bad thing about all the adventures that get released, they tend to assume the characters are just combat machines. Hell, even I have fallen into this trap, and are writing adventures that assume the characters are combat machines.

I am hindering my own game, because publishers seem not to be giving much of a choice.

Then again, combat fests are fun, so let all go kill orcs.

Richard Canning