Player Tactics

[Edgewood]

My gaming group consists of 5 players. Most of which are 1st generation players (meaning 1st edition) and one 3rd generation player. Yet despite all of the experience these guys have, they seem to lack any idea of tactics in combat. All too often they become static, don't move around, don't utilize their feats, and hardly ever use other combat options like bull rushing, disarming and (the gods forbid) grappling. I have gone over tactics with the group before yet it just doesn't seem to sink in. They need to use cover, and the space that is around them.

I use the monsters to the extent of their abilities. I use their abilities to rake, grapple, bull rush, bite, and to exploit their weaknesses. The more intelligent the monster I am player, the more likely it'll go after the lightly armoured, or the most dangerous. Does anyone else have this problem? I have used my gameplay as an example, I have spoken with the group directly, and I have gone as far as forwarding discussions of combat rules that appear on the D&D website, and from threads on EN world.

How do you handle this problem? If it exists in your group I mean.

 

[Lasher Dragon]

Wow... I would think all it would take is a near-TPK encounter or 2 to hammer home the concept of tactics. IME our tactics rarely slip, and when they do it usually proves very dangerous. Perhaps you should start cranking up the difficulty?

 

[the Jester]

The hard way.

Sometimes you gotta kill 'em to learn 'em.

 

[Edgewood]

The hard way.

Sometimes you gotta kill 'em to learn 'em.

It's funny you say that. Just recently, two characters died in the same combat. Their jaws dropped to the floor. I'm hoping that it'll sink in. Total PK would wake them up....

 

[Crothian]

see how they react after the deaths, show NPCs using tactics sometimes players can learn by seeing tohers do it

 

[Enkhidu]

My gaming group consists of 5 players. Most of which are 1st generation players (meaning 1st edition) and one 3rd generation player...

You may have answered your own question here - most of the 1st gen players I've met didn't come to D&D via its wargaming roots, they did so via the Basic set and the initial AD&D hardbacks, which didn't spend nearly as much time on tactics as 3e does. Plus, if the 3rd generation player learned the ropes from this basically 1st gen bunch... well, you get the idea.

 

[Wombat]

My games are much more about stories and character interactions than tactics.

Sometimes we get into the whole battleboarding thing, but I would no more expect my players to be expert tacticians than I would expect them to know the theory behind their magical spells.

Some of my monsters have been tactical machines; others have been pushovers.

But in the end, the last thing I want my rpg to turn into is another #^$%@#* miniatures game. That's why I got into rpgs -- to get away from miniatures battles. Too many arguments over "line of sight" and "morale checks" for my tastes...

 

[PapersAndPaychecks]

Ask your group why they don't use the tactics you expect.

It might be that they don't know what to do, but frankly that strikes me as unlikely. If you've got a group of older-generation gamers they might very well be bored with combat; I've personally sat round the table with combat-oriented 3e gamers and found that handling feats and attacks of opportunity and all the other slow, tedious mechanics just puts me to sleep. A fight every three or four sessions is more than enough for me.

Try reducing the amount of fighting very dramatically and spending more time on roleplaying or problem-solving encounters instead, that usually works wonders with more experienced players.

 

[Ogrork the Mighty]

Maybe they just don't care. I've DM'ed a lot of players over the years and some just have no interest in tactics; they'd rather do what they want when they want, damn the torpedoes!

 

[Edgewood]

Try reducing the amount of fighting very dramatically and spending more time on roleplaying or problem-solving encounters instead, that usually works wonders with more experienced players.

I am more of a storyteller myself, and always try to find a balance in combat and roleplaying. And although it seems that my thread would indicate that we do alot of combat, I would think that the ratio of roleplaying sessions to combat is about 3:1. Having said that, I do lace the roleplaying sessions with minor conflicts but that has more to do with the personality of one of the characters than with anything I plan.

It's just that when we do get down to the nitty gritty of combat, they seem to hesitate with what they can do. It could be that they just aren't as familiar with the combat rules as they let on...