Player's Handbook 2: I haz it

[Majoru Oakheart]

Wouldn't it be three?

The +1 ac/ref scales by tier, so that's +2. And while they don't focus on dex or int, they get the free +1 at each tier, for a net +1 modifier. So +3 total.

Except the average AC at 1st level is 16(most light armor users have leather+18 in Dex of Int).

Even if we assume Barbarians are going to drop a 12 in Dex(so far, only 1 of the 3 I've seen played have. They've gone with a 10 Dex in order to put more points in Str and Con), then they will have a 15 AC at first level WITH their bonus. They are already below average.

And I was measuring the growth after first level. A Barbarian who starts at 15 AC will have 17 AC at 30(without the rest of the bonuses common to everyone). A Wizard who starts with 14 AC will have an 18 AC(19 with Demigod) at 30th. Thus, 2 growth instead of 4.

I have no idea how well they work in actual gameplay. None at all. But I have really, really high hopes for a character class that has decent hit points, terrible AC, and the ability to pile on temporary hit points and damage like there's no tomorrow. If it works, it will be a great way to play on the edge.

I love the idea. So far, in our playtests, it hasn't materialized. They've had ACs of 13 or 14. They've been able to generate 4 temp hitpoints every second round or so, but that's been nowhere near enough to stop them from going down all the time.

One of my friends who plays a Barbarian in LFR had pretty much stopped playing it because he was tired of dropping every single combat. Plus, apparently he misses using Avalanche Strike almost 80% of the time due to bad die rolls. He finally took Chain armor. He's enjoyed his character since. But he didn't want to take it. He liked the idea of the Barbarian wearing light armor. He was hoping to retrain out of the feat once he got his Con bonus to AC(since that was the rumor going around). Now that he's heard that it is only a +1 bonus, he's decided it's still a no-brainer for him to keep the Chain proficiency.

 

[Cadfan]

And I was measuring the growth after first level. A Barbarian who starts at 15 AC will have 17 AC at 30(without the rest of the bonuses common to everyone). A Wizard who starts with 14 AC will have an 18 AC(19 with Demigod) at 30th. Thus, 2 growth instead of 4.

Maybe I'm just being an idiot.

The wizard who starts with a base 14 will get +8 to his intelligence, improving his AC by 4.

The barbarian who starts with a base 14 will get +2 to his dexterity (for +1 ac), and +2 due to his class feature. So a total of 3.

I don't see where I'm missing anything.

As for the general starting point of a barbarian's AC... I forget sometimes that everyone else plays point buy. I play array. In my games a barbarian would have a 12 or 13 in dex or int as a matter of course. In a point buy game, people can specialize more, which psychologically tends to mean dumping defense for more offense. I don't know what to say about this part other than that its not an issue that will bedevil my game.

 

[Majoru Oakheart]

The wizard who starts with a base 14 will get +8 to his intelligence, improving his AC by 4.

The barbarian who starts with a base 14 will get +2 to his dexterity (for +1 ac), and +2 due to his class feature. So a total of 3.

Oops. I forgot the 2 mandatory pluses to Dex. Sheesh, you'd think I'd remember. Well, that actually makes it a bit better. You don't fall much behind after all.

I still think their AC is a little low, but you've convinced me it might be tolerable. I just want to see how their powers changed from the playtest.

 

[davethegame]

I may have missed it elsewhere. What's the fiction/fluff behind the deva, anyone know?

They were once astral servitors of the gods who incarnated in the world to fight evil, and are constantly reincarnated. They don't reproduce, but when they reincarnate, they wake up fully grown in a sacred location. It's also mentioned that if they become corrupted, they risk becoming raksasha.

 

[davethegame]

Do any of the new classes use Con as a primary stat, or are infernal warlocks still the only one?

Still just Infernal Warlocks.

 

[Shroomy]

They were once astral servitors of the gods who incarnated in the world to fight evil, and are constantly reincarnated. They don't reproduce, but when they reincarnate, they wake up fully grown in a sacred location. It's also mentioned that if they become corrupted, they risk becoming raksasha.

I liked the concept of the deva when I first heard about, but when we learned that a corrupt deva can become a raksasha, the deva pretty much leapt to the top of my list when it comes to races. Hopefully, someday there will some sort of mechanical support for a corrupt deva...

 

[Asmor]

Just wanted to chime in with respect to the barbarian AC issue.

I just played a level 10 kobold barbarian last night, with 20 AC. I almost never got missed. I also got attacked a lot. I also only got to spend three healing surges. And I ended the night with 89 out of 92 hit points (the night having been one and a half fights with no short rest between them). Everyone else is in considerably worse condition.

In the first fight, I had the Frost Wolf Rage manifested, so I wanted to be hit. In the second fight, with all my encounters spent, I'm using Stone Bear Rage and if I can ever manage to make my save and wake up I'm going to be going toe to toe with a dragon, with resist 7 damage and recuperating strike for 9 temp hp a round.

All this is to say, I really don't mind having a low AC. The barbarian's supposed to be hit-- he's got plenty of HP and plenty of damage mitigation.

 

[Kez Darksun]

One other class I'd like a bit more information on, in regards to their paragon paths, is the Invoker. I've got a Deva Invoker in mind right now, and I'd love to see if any of their paragon paths just seems to click with the rough workings of the character that I have now.

 

[Rechan]

Hopefully, someday there will some sort of mechanical support for a corrupt deva...

Do you mean like, rules on the effects of corruption on a deva?

Because I seem to recall it being mentioned there will be corrupt deva in the MM2.

 

[Pour]

At NYComicon, I think it was Chris Perkins who mentioned corrupt Deva are actually Rakshasa.