Players Whining that they Should be able to Buy Magic Items

[Mirage_Patrick]

Logically...if magic items exist then they will be bought and sold...now that might be on a 1 to 1 basis, auction, or if you have shops you can easily limit the stock of what they happen to have available.


Here is the simple question...are you saying a player is not allowed to sell an item? If a player can sell an item, then others can buy it...and there you go with the whole buying and selling of magic items.

The only way to logistically argue against the buying and selling of items is if the items themselves grow in power with an individual and therefore there would be a counter-incentive to selling of magic items.

Otherwise....if ya got a +5 sword...why not sell the +1, +2, +3, +4 swords...and by logic every other adventuring group/noble/merchant would have a similar mentality

 

[JoeGKushner]

I tend to not sweat the small stuff like rods of cure light wounds, minor scrolls, potions, and alchemical items.

One thing to consider though, is that if there are magic items in the game and the PC's aren't the only ones doing adventuring, that someone is boudn to have set up some type of 'swap'. Happens all the time in real life with almost every subject that can be considered a collectible.

Others have also made good points about the whole CR vs assumed magic level of the characters being built into the game.

For me, I tend to have players that have access to minor magic and a few 'unique' tweaks here and there. For example, one of my players has a two-handed sword that is an Item Familiar (feat from Unearthed Arcana), another has a two-handed sword that's a Scion Weapon that kills dragons and is meant for mages, another has parts of a suite of items that gain more power when the whole suite is collected.

 

[BiggusGeekus]

I'm somewhat sympathitic to the cry of "I wanna buy magic items!"

That said, the costs for the items in the DMG, are just that: the costs. Point out to your players the selling price of most durable goods is around double of the creation costs.

Hey, if they really want to spend 1,500 gp on a 50 charge wand of cure light wounds or 140,000 for a rod of lordly might, why would you want to stop them? Seriously. They have to use that gold for something. Why not let them coustomize their character a bit?

If you don't like Ye Olde Magik Shoppe in your campaign, they can always commission the items from wizards or priests until they get high enough level where you are comfortable with them going to other planes for "the good stuff". Let them know you're doing this. Set a cap of, for example, 10,000 gp cost for anything available on the Prime Material and cut loose when they hit the multiverse.

 

[Storm Raven]

I see it as a sign of the current gaming environment, influenced by CRPG's of various types, which puts different social contracts into circulation. As the gaming populace has changed, their cultural influences on gaming style have changed with them. Some groups have stuck to and reinforced the "old way" of the majority of magic being introduced by the DM, but others have adapted the styles of current game trends. Neither is good or bad, but different in styles.

I see it as a recognition of the reality that in any environment in which valuable items exist, a market will arise in which people buy and sell such items. History teaches us that valuable items will be bought and sold. No matter how "sacred" or "cool" the thing in question might seem to be, people will sell it if there are people willing to buy it. There is no persuasive reason for magic items to be an exception.

 

[Quasqueton]

Back in AD&D1, the DMG stated that a PC could sell magic items to NPCs in the game, or to another PC. But a PC could not buy a magic item from an NPC.

I saw character sheets for high-level PCs with an extra sheet (or 3) listing all the magic items the character had found and just stored away somewhere.

I used to go through the old classic modules and add up all the magic items the PCs could acquire. Often there'd be a couple +1 swords, or few +1 rings, or a suit of +1 plate mail and a suit of +1 chainmail. And even if there were enough PCs in the group to pass out these items without duplication, they'd find more in the very next module.

It was not uncommon to have collected a dozen magic items by 5th level, just playing the official adventure modules. And some of those items were duplicates or weaker than the character's main item.

It got kind of absurd to not allowing selling *and* buying of a perfectly legitimate type of goods. Why not let the PCs do this?

If it is a worry of having Magic*Marts in your campaign, are you also worried about having Armor Emporiums? Or Al's Used Ship lots? How about the Galleria of Jewels? I mean, if you allow the selling and purchasing of ships, you don't assume the PCs buy one of the twenty sitting down at the dockyard, right? They can buy a 5,000gp diamond (for a raise dead spell), but you don't assume it's found at the corner shop, right? They don't buy full plate armor in a store, off a rack, right?

I've got a little house rule in my game that to purchase a magic item, it takes 3 days per 1,000gp in its price to acquire it (compare to 1 day per 1,000gp to craft the item). [A Gather Information check DC 25 can reduce the delay time to 2 days/1,000gp.]

This includes the time to find a seller, broker, or crafter, and then wait for the item to come available or be created. You want a +2 sword, fine. It will take 24 days to get it. Some of that time is the PC making contacts, asking around, and looking around. Some is spent just waiting for the broker to do the leg work. Some is spent for the crafter to create it. But PCs can buy magic items for the listed price (controlled by international guilds), but never just "off the rack".

Quasqueton

 

[Orius]

Does anyone else have this problem? I'm old school, been playing DnD since 1979, and I have always been firm that players can't buy magic items. Without getting into the pros and cons of it, I never have and never will. It's just me and my style, and I am very up front with it when starting a new game or group. However I've noticed that with the advent of 3E, a few of my players are very adamant that the rules indicate that they are allowed to purchase magic items.

Now, rule 1 is of course, the DM sets the rules. I have never allowed this, and am fairly good about providing treasure in the form of items the party will need and will find useful and beneficial, and even after all of this, they are telling me that I am missing the boat on 3E rules.

Am I? I don't think I am, but some opinions and experiences would be helpful.

It's not really surprising. A lot of old-school DMs seems to find easier magic item acquisition and fast XP gains to be the hardest aspect of 3e to adjust to. Myself, I do offer small amounts of random minor items to be purchased by players in the larger cities, but that's it. The really good stuff has to be made or found.

We've had this argument here plenty of times before. There's a few things to keep in mind. First, in the old days, low magic was encouraged for the sake of game balance, but modules tended to be loaded down with lots of magic loot anyway, which went against the low magic reasoning in the first place. The basic assumption behind 3e is high magic from the start. Not all DMs like high magic, but keep in mind that a lot of monsters and such assume a party with plenty of magic resources. If they don't have them, then encounters can become tougher.

Another argument is the verisimiltude factor. Old school DMs generally prefer to ban the buying and selling of magic to keep a certain amount of control over the power that the party has. However, some people will argue that that makes no sense in a greater economic scale, that people would likely by and sell magic items if they existed. So you can still exert some control by not necessarily making everthing the PCs want available, reasoning that there are wealthy NPCs out there scarfing up the good stuff, or that the owners of the good stuff don't want to sell it off.

 

[diaglo]

I used to go through the old classic modules and add up all the magic items the PCs could acquire. Often there'd be a couple +1 swords, or few +1 rings, or a suit of +1 plate mail and a suit of +1 chainmail. And even if there were enough PCs in the group to pass out these items without duplication, they'd find more in the very next module.

true enough the DM knew there were a lot of items.

the players did not.

identify didn't work that way. go read it again in the PHB.

neither did detect magic.

and trying to convince the merchant you were selling him a + X weapon... was a joke.

 

[der_kluge]

I think you're missing out on some good opportunities here, really.

I mean, assuming the PCs have been asking around for the purchase of magic items, finally offer them up a "shady" dealer who claims to have an inventory of various items which can be manufactured "for a price" upon request.

Pick out some things, and then have the players pick the things they are interested in. Shady dealer leaves, and a few weeks later delivers the goods as promised.

The items work as advertised - UNTIL the party meets their nemesis, who utters a single command word, and all of the items instantly become cursed, negative versions of what they were before they have detrimental effects. Evil DM laugh ensues.


Alternatively, you could introduce a reclusive wizard in a tower dying scenario, whereby the PCs get to participate in an auction of the items present. Come up with several items, list them on the docket. Great way to alleviate them of all their money, especially if someone keeps outbidding them.

 

[maddman75]

IMC, I never had a 'magic shop' per se, but the characters could contact a wizard and ask him to make an item custom for him. This often involved cash and other item in exchance, maybe a favor or two. And when I set up a town or city, I would define what was available. For instance, town A might have a 7th level wizard with Craft Magical Arms and Armor and Craft Wand. That limits what he can make both in types of items and in power. A large city might hold a 12th level mage with Craft Wonderous Item, Brew Potion, and Forge Ring.

For the most part they'd use what they found, old school style. But if they wanted to track someone down they could indeed have special items made.

 

[Orius]

true enough the DM knew there were a lot of items.

the players did not.

Who said that's only back in the old days? I always have cases of players missing hidden treasure caches or not looting bodies. And I always chuckle about it.

identify didn't work that way. go read it again in the PHB.

neither did detect magic.

But keep in mind that there are plently of DMs out there who simply tell the players when they load up on treasure "You got a +1 sword, +1 shield, +1 ring of protection," etc.