Players Whining that they Should be able to Buy Magic Items

Status
Not open for further replies.
diaglo said:
true enough the DM knew there were a lot of items.

the players did not.

identify didn't work that way. go read it again in the PHB.

neither did detect magic.

and trying to convince the merchant you were selling him a + X weapon... was a joke.

Lots of those old classic mods and module series were written and playtested as tournament one-shots, too, not always intended for wholesale inclusion in a regular campaign without personal tailoring by the DM.

As to the thread topic, an NPC wizard or cleric can take the place of the shoppe, requiring a short quest or similiar adventure service for the crafting of an item, instead of simply plunking down some change.

If you really wanted to maintain an edge, then have the PCs pony up the cash and then gather a few of the components needed in the fabrication, too.
 
Last edited:

log in or register to remove this ad

true enough the DM knew there were a lot of items.

the players did not.

identify didn't work that way. go read it again in the PHB.

neither did detect magic.

and trying to convince the merchant you were selling him a + X weapon... was a joke.
I'm sorry, but I miss your point. Why would reading the identify spell in the PHB change the fact that classic modules had a lot of magic items, and the fact that most PCs of advanced level had a bunch? And how would it change the fact that the DMG specifically allowed PCs selling to NPCs but couldn't buy from NPCs?

Perhaps you should go read the DMG again?

Quasqueton
 

Quasqueton said:
I'm sorry, but I miss your point. Why would reading the identify spell in the PHB change the fact that classic modules had a lot of magic items...


identify and detect magic were 1st lvl spells.

you had a limited time in which identify would work. your exposure to it ... meant you lost the ability to read the magic or some bologna like that...

thus how many magic-users did you know that loaded up with identify and detect magic?

not many eh...

i think Orius and Bregh are more on target about why the PCs had so much.
 

I find player whining about magic items (or anything else) is usually solved by handing the player in question your screen... tell him you'll in the next room rolling up your halfing fighter/thief and you'd like him to run city adventures and never *ever* rail road him.

Since DMing is a lot more work than showing up 20 minutes late and whining about magic... most players take the hint and become a little more civil.

That said, I havent had a lot of trouble with whining players... (not for long- they usually move on to greener pastures).

Chuck
 

I have one vendor in a city that will have some magic swords and stuff for sale on occasion but not many people know it and he is very expensive. He's in a fairly large city as well and very few of his customers know this. What really gets me is that the players expect there to be magic shops in tiny hommlets and other places where logic dictates there may be a merchant with poor quality goods at best.
 

diaglo said:
identify and detect magic were 1st lvl spells.

you had a limited time in which identify would work. your exposure to it ... meant you lost the ability to read the magic or some bologna like that...
1 hour per level of the MU, after the initial discovery, IIRC.
 

A lot has been mentioned, but I have to ask this. How much gold do the PCs have? Sometimes, when you get all those coins burning a hole in your pocket, Magic Items are really the only thing that will get rid of all that gold.

And while in my games there ARE magic shops, they're expensive and usually lightly stocked. If you want something specific, you get it commissioned by a crafter type.
 

OK, let me clarify my position and outlook on the situation. I see a lot of people saying "well, the PCs will end up with lots of low level magical items by level X and will sell it, and if they are doing so, then so are others, thus there is a trade in magical items". My question is how high is it before PCs are willing to sell things. Most of the players I've seen like having a backup weapon, so you figure they will keep the first two, or maybe even 3, weapons they come across. Likewise, a spare suit of armor doesn't hurt to have sitting at home. Would suck for your 10th lvl PC to lose his +3 armor to a rust monster or black pudding and have to revert back to standard armor cause he sold his other magical armor for some quick cash. Also, when was the last time you saw a PC sell off a useful potion or scroll, as opposed to holding onto it "just in case". Now EVENTUALLY, I will agree that the PCs will get to a point where they will feel that selling some of their loot is worthwhile, but by this time they are usually mid level (or even higher). So my question is, how many people ever reach the point where they are willing to sell the stuff? Most of the people in the majority of the fantasy settings I've seen are peasants, merchants, laborers, nobles, etc. These are not leveled characters that are obtaining magical items to sell. Even among leveled characters, many may never be in a position to sell items. A mage who becomes very powerful through study is unlikely to be wallowing in expendable items that he can convert to ready cash, nor is the high priest who gains his powers through meditation and communion with his diety. So what I see is a VERY limited number of people who will ever be in a position where they would be willing to sell. Certainly not enough to create magical shops (although I could see some sort of auctioning being done, much like what happens today when a rare piece of art goes on sale, but this would be the exception and not the rule). The only other way for items to come into the market is if they are made to be sold. Considering the costs and time involved in making them, I doubt that many mages or clerics are willing to act as magical labor in creating the items.

Now, if the players let me know they want item X, I may throw them a bone and let them hear about someone who reportedly has said item and let them try to track the person down and barter with them for it. This can be a great platform for adventures as they follow false leads, maybe have to perform some service as part of their payment, etc. But to allow them to say at the beginning of the adventure "I'm going to sell my +2 sword and pick up a +3 sword, and a couple of cure potions and a pair of boots of speed" kinda kills the mysticism of the items, in addition to being unbelivable imho.

As for what they use their money for, most of my players find things. I've had players do anything from horde it to buying land or even (in one instance) a castle. Some have had families or even villages that they send their money back to; less savory characters have used the money to buy power or influence, and as a way of bribing others in high society when needed. Many of my players find they are consistently short of money, not that they have scads of it lying around with nothing to do with it. Adventuring is a way for them to get ahead, seek their fortunes, not an end to itself.
 

Ryltar said:
Do you run a campaign that is deviating from the D&D norm in a way that
- Monsters are weaker/stronger than standard
- Challenges are meant to be greater and more difficult to overcome
- it is a low-magic setting ?

If yes:

Do the players realize this? Even if you haven't explicitly stated it, is it something that has been established over the course of several gaming sessions?

If yes, then your players should realize that they are not being put at a disadvantage - you simply changed the rules in a global way to fit your DMing style. This is perfectly acceptable, but it's your players who have to be okay with it. Maybe what they really want is a different sort of game? Maybe they just need to see your reasoning behind it all.

Yes, everything is level appropriate and reasonable. The players realize this, and in fact, I've been dming the same bunch for about 15 years.

It isn't all of them, just a couple.

The campaigns they have enjoyed and loved, and we have a great time. I have 8 players, and it's only 2 of them that really drive this issue, but they have a good time playing the campaigns, so it's just an annoyance really that just won't go away.

I think mainly they have gotten it into their heads that 3E states they can buy items. I've tried to tell them that they are guidelines, but they still whine.

I encourage them to take the Item Creation Feats, but most of the time the spellcasters want feats for other things. I have enough trouble trying to convince the Wizard to Scribe his own scrolls when he wants to.

I think one of the underlying things is that the players don't want to give up the xp, but that seems a small cost to me to create what you want.


Billd91 said:
Does your ban on buying magic include potions, scrolls?

Clerics can purchase potions and scrolls from their own temples, wizards can from the Mage's guild, but again, I try to encourage them to manufacture them.
 

National Acrobat said:
I think mainly they have gotten it into their heads that 3E states they can buy items. I've tried to tell them that they are guidelines, but they still whine.

Well, technically, 3E does state that they can buy items. In the DMG (at least the 3.0 version - I'm not sure if it's still there in the 3.5 version), there are rules stating what items are available for purchase in different size settlements (based upon expense of the item, etc). The assumption, from a game design perspective, is that there is trade of magical items. So they're technically right, in that the rules do explicitly permit the purchase of magical items.

However, I've never met anyone that runs the game directly out of the rulebooks. So, as everyone else has already stated, as the DM, you have the right to run things differently. However, as everyone else has also already stated, you need to talk with your players and discuss how to reconcile your respective expectations about how the fantasy world that you're collectively participating in works.
 

Status
Not open for further replies.
Remove ads

Top