Players Whining that they Should be able to Buy Magic Items

[Kast]

I think there should be items available for sale on a made to order basis. However, who does it and what is required to obtain them would be part of the role-playing experience. I would never cave in and go with a Magic-mart.

An adventure to find the maker, or get the components or a task to perform for the maker as a sign of good faith is no different than kicking a door down, slaying the dragon and knabbing the Frost Brand.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

But you don't have a problem with the bag full of 50,000 gp?

Well quipped!

 

[Hitokiri]

I think the real problem here isn't players whining that they want to buy magical items. It's really the DMs whining that they should have ABSOLUTE POWER. You're not the only player, nor the player that matters the most. The game shouldn't be a power fantasy for the DM. If you can't work with your players to give them what they would like, you shouldn't be DMing; it's their game too.

DM's do have absolute power, it kinda comes with the title.

The difference between a good DM and a poor one is how they use it.

I have always been up front with how I am going to run a game, so players walk into it with their eyes wide open. They know what to expect the first time they sit down at the table. As a result, I have very little patience for people who suddenly decide that Im running the game wrong. If they didn't like the rules to begin with, then they shouldn't have joined in. You can feel free to think that on some sort of power trip, but most of my players would laugh at you for saying so. I think the fact that the vast majority of people I've GMed for have been eager to jump into my games when asked if they want to play again, sometimes at the expense of other groups, tells me loud and clear what their thougts on my style of play is.

Now a GM who arbitrarily decides these things on the fly without informing players beforehand is just ASKING to have problems.

 

[Mallus]

Cannily refusing implies there's a reason rather than just the DM saying "I say so."

But, everything outside PC actions happen because the DM "says so". Rain falls, princesses get kidnapped by evil dukes, the dead rise from the earth to menace taxpayers... Sometimes simply saying 'that doesn't match the flavor of the campaign' is all you get. For example, if you're shooting for Tolkienesque epic fantasy, magic shops (and beholders) are right out.

That and DM flexibility to let the players have some control of their PCs destinites by being accommodating on some reasonably agreeable issues.

'Giving PC's some control over their destinies' means allowing them free range of actions in the game, not altering the parameters of the world to suit their liking. A PC can decide to go shopping, I decide the contents of the store.

I don't think he implied at all that machine gun wielding pixies were something that needed to be obliged to.

I know. I just like the thought of machine gun wielding pixies...

 

[Ace]

If you go to the magic shop with your big bag full of 50,000 gp or so to get a +5 stuff, this isn't magic anymore. This is the fantasy equivalent of a modern technological equipment. As such, IMO it loses all flavor of what magic is supposed to represent.

I disagree with this, IMC anyway, magic is technology --

Now I stopped the "need to swap" problem by giving my players cool items that level up with them -- that +1 Two Bladed Staff -- main gain new powers in time as may your amulet or barcers -- the "GP per level" equation stays the same but the number of items and the need to switch them out is reduced--

basically you can't get Aundril or Excaliber at level 1 but you can get a sword that will become Aundril or Excaliber

Also I allow the players to buy any non destructive "charged" item they are interested in any decent sized city -- these are OTC stuff and very common as they can be made from the magic in ordinary things

+1 weapon and armor can be bought at list price as can +2 with a few good rolls since they are juiced up masterwork and masterpiece items

Destructive items can be had but they may be illegal

Stronger stuff and permanent items need to be commisioned or aquired at a very specialized dealer in a very big city -- they require hard to get power components to make

Now In my high magic game with common planar travel and loads of power components avavilable magic is a commodity -- find a city with the right GP limit and roll am Information gathering, Knowledge Local or at 5DC higher Knowledge Arcana or Bardic Lore check equal to DC10 + the highest level effect and you can buy the item

 

[Ibram]

Permanet magic items are rare as hens teeth IMC, and are usualy family treasures or reveared relics. Getting your hands on a magic weapon or armor is extremely difficult and dangerous, and are often dangerous to have or use as well.

This is due to several factors IMC; firstly being the extreme rarity of magic users capable of even producing a magic item, secondly those who can are either under the control of (or in control of) a powerful government or group and thus not likely to spend time making +2 longswords for every chump knight who wants to slay a daemon.

How do I compensate for this? Well creatures that absolutly need magic items to defeat them are as rare as the magic weapons themselves. In addition I've added differing levels of Masterworked items as well as added alchemical items; though not as powerful as magic they are easier to come by and are much safer to use. Also since magic items are rare the opposition hardly ever uses them so the party doesnt need their own counter items.

Finaly I use levled items (that is items that become more powerful the more the PC uses it) so i dont need to worry about having the party find a new weapon to defeat a new foe.

Though I dont restrict PCs from selling items I doubt that any PC would ever sell a magic item the had (unless they knew it was cursed).

 

[Vigilance]

I think the real problem here isn't players whining that they want to buy magical items. It's really the DMs whining that they should have ABSOLUTE POWER. You're not the only player, nor the player that matters the most. The game shouldn't be a power fantasy for the DM. If you can't work with your players to give them what they would like, you shouldn't be DMing; it's their game too.

Sorry this just doesnt wash with me.

If I spend 100 hours designing a world, and 5 hours a week working on fun and interesting adventures (I hope) for players who show up on Sunday and game... then yeah, its more my game than theirs.

Does this mean I dont listen to their concerns? Nope.

Does that mean the final decision is still ultimately mine? Yep.

Notice I am perfectly content to let someone else take the reigns.

My experience is that most troublesome players dont want to actually do the work and GM. If they do, more power to them.

If the players would rather not game with ME... thats also their decision, and again more power to them.

However, as the person who invests the most in the game, I dont consider it unfair that I should get to "set the table".

I dont think that's a "power trip".

Chuck

 

[Arnwyn]

nor the player that matters the most.

Meh. An assertion I don't agree with. My experiences have clearly shown me that the DM does matter most. One player not having fun allows the game to continue on. The DM not having fun = game grinding to an immediate halt.

In the end, attrition will determine whether that "power tripping" DM will continue to DM or not. You'd be surprised how much "absolute power" works for some groups.

 

[Mallus]

You're not the only player

True.

...nor the player that matters the most.

False. How many times have you gamed missing a player? How many times missing the DM?

The game shouldn't be a power fantasy for the DM

Yes it should. But it should be a power fantasy for the players, too.

If you can't work with your players to give them what they would like, you shouldn't be DMing; it's their game too.

There's an enormous difference between providing an enjoyable game, and giving the players everything they ask for.

There's a word for giving an audience everything they want. Its called pandering. The funny thing is most people don't actually like it. There's a certain pleasure in wandering around in someone else's made-up world, where things don't work they way you'd have them work...

 

[jeffh]

How do DMs who don't allow purchasing magic items explain why no market develops for them? That would take some pretty bizarre behaviour on the part of just about everyone with any wealth to speak of in the entire campaign world.

I find Turanil's argument equally bizarre. I've never understood this "magic should be mysterious even to its practitioners" attitude. It's got no basis in historical beliefs about magic, the fiction these games are based on, mythology, folklore, nothing. As far as I can tell this utterly weird idea - which implies that no-one should be able to cast spells reliably, for one thing - was invented from whole cloth by gamers around 1980. It has zero basis in anything from before then or in anything from outside RPGs, period.