D&D 3E/3.5 Playing in a DND3E game with no magic items

[Kae'Yoss]

Re: I have the same idea

I've actually been thinking about the same idea. The next non-RPGA game I GM will not have any magic items.

That may be interesting, but you'll have a truckload of work to do.

Essentially, I'm going to eliminate all magic item creation feats. The only magic items that exist will be artifacts (for story purposes).

Not eliminating them would be plain stupid. I wonder whether the DM this is about has thought about that.

What about magic weapon and magic vestment?

Many fantasy novels are "low-magic" worlds. Conan, for example, never had any magic items. If there was a magic item in one of his adventures, it was there for one story as a plot device to defeat the antagonist.

It wasn't designed for that. No creature was created with the thought that the enemy will have magically enhanced ability scores, arms and armor. No creature got a DR 25/+4 or something...

I think the party will be fine. Its up to the GM to "fine-tune" threats to fit the party. i.e. I have played in campaigns where the party faced threats that were the EL of the party, campaigns where the party faced threats that were always 2 to 4 ELs above the party, campaigns where the party always had a higher EL than the monsters, and campaigns where the GM didn't care about the ELs.

But they all had magic, right?

I know how it is: I have created enemies that were meant to trouble my PC's a little, which lost initiative and didn't even act once.
The DM in the epic campaign I played in usually creates the tough enemies so they should tear us to shreds, and it ends up us having no big trouble (last session he had to send a cleric to the rescue because we otherwise would have killed his 600+HP Ettin Berserker, with me having survived his attack that should have killed me, because of mirror image)

 

[Darklone]

I strongly advice a DM who wants to play without magic items to give the non spellcaster classes some more feats and skillpoints and all classes an attribute raise every second, not every fourth level.

 

[Fenes 2]

The Wheel of Time d20 RPG is also a setting where very few magic items exist, and its classes could be worth a look-over.

(As a caveat: I have never played it, just read through it, so I do not know how balanced the spellcasters are in a game. The melee classes, however, seem pretty good, with added skills and defense boni.)

 

[IceBear]

I do think that they do mention in The Wheel of Time books that the spellcasters would overshadow the non-casters.

IceBear

 

[Endur]

Re: Re: Re: Playing in a DND3E game with no magic items

hmmm,

level 25 Barbarian non-magic vs. level 16 Barbarian with magic.

I would rate that as a tie (or maybe a slight edge to the level 25 character). Whoever attacks first should win this fight.

I think you could be right under some circumstances, however, nine levels is a big gap. If the fight occurs in anti-magic field, obviously the higher level character would win. If the higher level character goes first because of additional skill ranks or higher initiative due to epic feats, that might determine the outcome of the combat. On the other hand, if the low level character has some magic items that let him go first (ring of invisibility, wings of flying, etc.), that might determine the outcome of the fight.

fully equipped with magic items, we mean:
+5 weapon (or +5 equivalent)
+6 str boost
+4 dex boost
+4 con boost
+5 armor (or +5 equivalent)
Boots of Speed


Compared to that, the 25th level character has
+9 levels meaning:
+9d12 +9x con hit points
+7 BAB
Higher saving throws
1 extra feat
3 Epic Feats
+2 stat boost
+9 x level skill points
+2 DR
extra uncanny dodge
more rages per day


I think the higher level character and the low level character will end up with about the same attack bonus to hit. The low level character will have a better armor class and the high level character has more hit points/DR.

Re my "magic items make the fighter" quote -- note that in a one-on-one battle, a fully-equipped 16th level fighter would most likely kick your 25th level Conan's ass.

Up, down, right, left, and sideways into next week.

 

[Forrester]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Playing in a DND3E game with no magic items

hmmm,

level 25 Barbarian non-magic vs. level 16 Barbarian with magic.

I would rate that as a tie (or maybe a slight edge to the level 25 character). Whoever attacks first should win this fight.

. . .

I think the higher level character and the low level character will end up with about the same attack bonus to hit. The low level character will have a better armor class and the high level character has more hit points/DR.

But the low level character will be doing a lot more damage. With the raging barbarian's AC a lowly 15, the low-level character can do some massive power-attacking. He's also going to do a lot more damage per hit -- probably almost twice as much damage, as he's stronger and has that +5 weapon.

Conan's going to get his ass kicked by a guy that he'd easily be able to handle fifty of, were he "properly" magickally equipped. Yeah, magic makes the man when you're a high-level fighter. Not too fond of it myself, but it's true.

 

[Victim]

The funny thing is, that "fully equiped 16th level barbarian isn't. He's short about 100 000. Of course, some of that would be spent on save boosters that don't figure into a barbarian on barbarian struggle. But I'll use your item array.

Starting Physical stats:
STR 16
DEX 14
CON 16

All level based increases will go to strength

Magic Barb:

STR 26, 32 raging
DEX 18
CON 20, 26 raging

+5 Greataxe
+5 Chainshirt
Boots of Speed

Atts: +32/+27/+22/+17 and +32 when raging and hasted
Dmg: 1d12+21 20/x3
AC: 25 when raging and hasted
HP: 225 raging

-------------------------------------------------
No magic Barb:
I'll assume he has Mighty rage, armor skin, and superior initiative

STR 24, 32 when raging
DEX 14
CON 16, 24 raging

Atts: +35/+30/+25/+20
Dmg: 1d12+16
AC: 17 when raging
HP: 355

It looks like the 25th level barbarian has a sllight advantage. Haste will help the magic barb quite a bit. Of course, that's with a pretty poor set of magic items for the level 16 barbarian.

 

[giffen]

A use for this prestige class.

One word: Forsaker.

 

[magnas_veritas]

I do think that they do mention in The Wheel of Time books that the spellcasters would overshadow the non-casters.

IceBear

Eh.

It's okay. Healing's horrendous. First convert to subdual, then block it out for a while, but it comes back with a vengeance. You have to have downtime in order to survive. Multiple encounters in a row will kill PCs. And the adventure book, Prophecies of the Dragon, is awful.

So, of course, the strategy becomes that which our group carried over from Shadowrun. "Get the mage first." Actually, that goes for all low-magic games.

Brad

 

[Kae'Yoss]

Re: A use for this prestige class.

One word: Forsaker.

Thre word: No. Magic. Items.

Some more words, formed into sentences and all:
Many of the forsakers abilities are only active if he destroys magical items for it. No magical items = no abilities. But you could be right: even without this stuff you're quite powerful compared to other charakters without magic staff, and it could teach the DM in question a lesson (if he allows the forsaker).