D&D (2024) Playtest 6: Paladin ... Divine Smite is a Spell now

[doctorbadwolf]

But it's still all the same system! The spell slot system. The bad one!

I thought everything using the same system 'made them all the same' but I guess that was a lie?!

The classes aren’t all running on the exact same chassis getting the same number of options on the same schedule in the same format.

 

[DEFCON 1]

LOL no.

Re-fluffing is not "have that player imagine it differently".

Re-fluffing is everyone at the table agreeing that say, your magic missiles are tiny metal arrows guided by fairies or something, rather than bolts of energy.

Since when do the other players have to agree with you on how you visualize it? If the game mechanics are exactly the same... I can visualize all this stuff however the heck I want. I don't even have to TELL you how I'm seeing this play out.

When the DM says "You cut into his shoulder with your axe"... every single player is going to see that image in their head a little differently. And one person's visualization is no better or worse or "more right" than any other. None of it matters. So why would we need some sort of table consensus is beyond me.

 

[Sir Brennen]

I'm pretty sure there's Magic Resistance which is outright resistance to damage from magic, but sure PC-style MR doesn't work.

Then that's a special, one-off case, because none of the core demons and devils have MR that isn't just Advantage on Saves.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

Then that's a special, one-off case, because none of the core demons and devils have MR that isn't just Advantage on Saves.

That's good to hear - I thought they did, but I have to admit, on casual inspection, I can't find it.

Since when do the other players have to agree with you on how you visualize it? If the game mechanics are exactly the same... I can visualize all this stuff however the heck I want. I don't even have to TELL you how I'm seeing this play out.

When the DM says "You cut into his shoulder with your axe"... every single player is going to see that image in their head a little differently. And one person's visualization is no better or worse or "more right" than any other. None of it matters. So why would we need some sort of table consensus is beyond me.

This feels like you're trying to make a parody of an argument rather than actually arguing. Re-fluffing has always revolved around consensus. Otherwise it's just re-imagining, and it's a hell of a lot less fun that way.

 

[Maxperson]

Well... this part isn't true if you follow the definition of what things are "magical" based on sage advice compendium's ruling. Long story short, divine smite is fueled by spell slot so it will be suppressed. But neither 2014's Improved Divine Smite nor packet 6's Radiant Strikes had wording use "magical" so they won't be suppressed by antimagic.

Okay, but spell resistance won't effect it. Nor will silence.

 

[Sir Brennen]

Using a Bonus Action instead of being a free action isn't an "edge case".

Pretending it is is either being intentionally disingenuous, or misunderstanding the action economy pretty severely.

That wasn't part of the argument the person I was responding to was making, and I didn't say everything not the same was an edge case.

I completely understand the action economy, and I'm also completely fine with Divine Smite being reigned in from an "every attack" situation to "once per turn".

 

[renbot]

I must be the only person in existence that enjoys using the smite spells from what I’ve seen online. Honestly if I could get them all of them on an Eldritch Knight or Bladesinger, they would be the only spells I would cast with them (well them and other weapon spells like Green-Flame Blade, Booming Blade, and Steel Wind Strike).

Not saying that making Divine Smite of spell is a bad or good idea, just that I must be a rare breed.

My hexblade loved them.

 

[Sir Brennen]

Also by avoiding “melee weapon attack” they have avoided interfering with blade-cantrip smites, which is nice.

Except now you have to have the ability to cast two spells in a round to get that combo to work. Palalocks with quickened spell for the win!

 

[Maxperson]

Re-fluffing is changing how something is presented or looks in-game.

Correct.

It has nothing to do with game mechanics.

Not correct. Fluff and mechanics are tied closely together. If you re-fluff medusa's gaze attack to say that the person turns into rubber, but the mechanic still turns people to stone, there's a disconnect that breaks things.

And a DM does not have 'ultimate say' over that, because they have no way of actually forcing a player to see things in their mind's eye the way the DM wants.

100% wrong. The DM has ultimate say over it, because the narration is his. You the play can say your magic missiles look like fiery hawks, but when the DM narrates them as blobs of energy, that's how they look and are presented in the fiction, not how you visualize it. Your personal visualization is irrelevant to how they look in the fiction.

The DM may try to suggest or insist on how something is to be perceived... but they can't force players to do it.

Nor is their perception relevant. How he narrates it is how it looks in the fiction.

In 4E... many players complained that there was no longer a 'Ranged Fighter' option. And a lot of us just said "Re-fluff the Ranger to be a Ranged Fighter!" You don't have to change any of the game mechanics-- they can remain exactly the same and grant all the bonuses for archery and stuff that the 4E Ranger got-- all you had to do was ignore those little italics bits of narrative and fluff that described the mechanics as nature-based. Just roleplay your character as a Fighter but use the Ranger's mechanics.

And that fails for a lot of us. Re-fluffing a ranger does not a fighter make. Nor can it actually happen unless the DM is on board with it.

Barkeep: "There's that poor ranger again who thinks he's a fighter."
Barmaid: "Poor man. I'm going to give him a drink on the house and see if it helps."

 

[Chaosmancer]

Also re: Smite one huge change people have seemingly ignored is Magic Resistance works on Smite now.

Previously it did not, or not reliably. But now Smite is a spell, it 100% unquestionably falls under the purview Magic Resistance. That's ironically a really significant nerf against a lot of creatures that Paladins are supposed to be focusing on combating.

Um... magic resistance only gives advantage to saves, it never gave resistance to magical damage. So... how does magic resistance do anything to Divine Smite? There is no save.