D&D (2024) Playtest 8 Spell Discussion

[Henadic Theologian]

One big thing to consider is that the spells:
Summon Aberration
Summon Beast
Summon Celestial
Summon Construct
Summon Elemental
Summon Fey
Summon Fiend
Summon Shadowspawn
Summon Undead

All seem to be going into the new PHB, Summon Aberration is already quite essential to the Great Old One Warlock.

It'll be weird if Summon Dragon from Fizban's doesn't make it in given its from the same family of spells, but saved for Fizban's.

 

[Leatherhead]

In the spell descriptions, to list the classes is waste of space. It is unnecessary − and is always untrue because subclasses and other features can gain the spells anyway.

Only in the book format. For a digital database it's incredibly useful, which is where this edition is heading.

Anyway, healing still doesn't outpace damage. They would have needed to more than double the healing output of Cure Wounds to make headwinds in that direction instead of just adding a ~50% bonus. As it stands, they are simply correcting a mistake from the 2014 guidelines that over penalized healing by making it worse than damage for no good reason.

Conjure spells are now mobile Zone-control spells, which is one way of handling them I suppose.

Starry Light and Font of Moonlight seem to be a concession to tie Druids more into the "Nighttime" radiant damage type (which is a mistake imo, they should be elemental damage dealers first and foremost). As for why Bards get them? Who even knows at this point. We have no clue what the Bard is going to do because everyone approved of them picking their own spell list out of a hat and they reverted that change a packet later.

 

[Henadic Theologian]

I was part way through writing my own version.

Spells

• Conjure Animals - Druidic Spirit Guardians that don't have to be centered on the caster. Not as strong as Fireball but strong
• Conjure Celestial - create a pillar of light (Cleric, L7). Big, beefy, no idea about balance
• Conjure Elemental - 20ft diameter area control that sucks people in. I don't see how fire grapples; should be split into four different spells for the different elementals.
• Conjure Fey - massively upcast Spiritual Weapon that occupies space
• Conjure Minor Elementals - didn't the Spirit Shroud just break the Bladelock? This upcasts like a monster - huge potential with a Bladesinger or a wildshaped moon druid (cast this before wild shaping).
• Conjure Woodland Beings - a strictly weaker upcast Spirit Shroud. Why? Especially when Conjure Animals exists and is lower level.
• Fount of Moonlight - Another Spirit Shroud-alike. This time actually for Moon Druids and provides protection. Also for bards - and it doesn't upcast
• Power Word: Fortify. Great. 120thp to share evenly (which is why it goes up to six).
• Starry Wisp: A perfectly fine cantrip

I really dislike the old Conjure spells and think the Summoning spells from Tasha's are a huge improvement. That said some of these spells are better than others.

As for the healing buff, healing should never never outpace damage. But Cure Wounds needed the buff (and preferably to drive Healing Word into a smaller niche).

I really liked the OG Conjure spells and really hate these new ones.

This is going to be as divisive as the changes to Wild Shape Templates were.

For fans of Conjuration, this sucks, for those that hated it, its great.

I mean at least dump concentration this spells would never get used.

And this would eliminate the OG version of the spells for those that like them.

 

[CM]

Not seeing the logic of why Fortify needs to be equally distributed... What if I want my barbarian to get 60, and 20 for everyone else, etc.

 

[Henadic Theologian]

Not seeing the logic of why Fortify needs to be equally distributed... What if I want my barbarian to get 60, and 20 for everyone else, etc.

It's a functional spell, but boring. I'd rather just cast upcasted aid.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

Wizards dont use material components.

I guess we should tell the players in my campaigns.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

Well, you need shield to keep the mage alive long enough to cast fireball, and counterspell to make mage cry when you ruin his fireball.

So, three.

Take away counterspell and no one loses a fireball.

And any wizards who go late in the initiative order deserve what they get. We're breeding a better breed of wizard here! (Just kidding, wizards never breed.)

 

[Yaarel]

Starry Light and Font of Moonlight seem to be a concession to tie Druids more into the "Nighttime" radiant damage type (which is a mistake imo, they should be elemental damage dealers first and foremost). As for why Bards get them? Who even knows at this point. We have no clue what the Bard is going to do because everyone approved of them picking their own spell list out of a hat and they reverted that change a packet later.

For the Wizard, the elements are "fire, air, water, and earth", the alchemical states of matter.

For the Druid, the elements are "sunlight, wind, rain, and soil", a living ecology.

I like Primal classes interacting with sun, moon, and stars as neighbors in their communities.


Bard? Who knows why any skyey spells? I suspect the Radiant damage relates to the 3e Bard Control Light spell and similar. For 5e, control light makes less sense, except perhaps in the context of Illusion magic, which can also be useful for performance stage effects.


I prefer to see the Bard without Elemental magic, and to see the Druid without Enchantment-Illusion magic.

 

[Mistwell]

I welcome the class tags on spells and missed them from prior versions of the game. I don't care if they are not perfect as there are additional ways to gain some spells, I care that the overwhelming majority of spell access is right there so I can stay in that section of the book and not have to flip to the other section as often.

I also think they will take up space which was previously just blank white paper not fit for other purposes. So no waste comes from this. And I don't consider something I find useful to be clutter or distracting.

 

[Yaarel]

I guess we should tell the players in my campaigns.

The Wizard can choose the implement: Wands are popular, but a Poultice (vague component bag) is an option too.