Gate Pass Gazette Playtest the ARTIFICER (Kickstarter backers only)

Morrus

Well, that was fun
Staff member
If you backed the Kickstarter you'll have just been given the playtest document for the Artificer class.

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As you know, all Kickstarter backers will get a free digital copy of the pilot issue of the Gate Pass Gazette, a monthly publication for official Level Up content. We've talked about it before, so you probably know what's in the pilot issue -- the artificer, lycanthropy rules, the jabberwock, and the construct heritage.

That issue is now written. Next step is layout. But we thought you might like a look at the artificer and offer some playtest feedback. We'll put out a survey later to collect your thoughts.

As the Gazette will be a monthly publication, we won't be making a habit of public playtests of the contents, but we figured you folks would really like to see this.

Subscribe to the Gazette​

We need 500 subscribers to launch the Gazette. We have over 300 now so we're well on our way. The pilot issue will go out for free to Kickstarter backers regardless, but if you'd like more please do subscribe. You won't be charged until we produce the next issue, and you can cancel at any time. You can subscribe here.
 

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Vexxmyst

Villager
So, I'm not sure where you'd like to receive feedback, but I had to get my voice out regarding my first impressions.

I heavily dislike the O5e Artificer. I am in love with the one presented in this document from the first feature. Without divulging too much information, Spell Inventions are such an interesting flip on the mechanics in a way that I think UA Psionics tried to be, but much simpler and interesting to boot. It becomes less of a 'highest-level spells first round, go down the list' and more of a balancing act. Do you cast at the lowest level for longevity, or nuke the opposition with the risk of a one-off?
Not to mention, this is far closer to my expectation of an artificer than the 'half-wizard using a hammer as a focus with a tacked on system' that O5e provides. You're an artificer, your spells should be invented.

In summary, you've turned my least favorite class into one I'd like to give a shot, and I hope the mass reception feels likewise.
 

Stone Dog

Adventurer
Vexxmyst has it down. I don't know what the old artificer was like, but this one has a unique way of interacting with magic that is fantastic to read about. I'd love to see it in action, but the holidays aren't the best time to gather my friends for play sessions.

Really, the Artificer, Sorcerer, Warlock, and Wizard aren't just versions of each other with a different coat of paint in A5E. I really enjoy how they have different ways they interact with the magic system.
 

VenerableBede

Adventurer
In summary, you've turned my least favorite class into one I'd like to give a shot, and I hope the mass reception feels likewise.
Similar response. I am also, particularly, a fan of classes with built-in minions, so the Stitcher immediately grabbed my attention as the—off the top of my head—only archetype (beyond the ranger's Beastmaster) with a minion, and I definitely like this better than the Beastmaster because, well... who wouldn't want a Frankenstein minion over a wolf?
 



Faolyn

(she/her)
My read-through, of course.

For starters, I think I like this concept more than the o5e artificer: having your spells automatically be tied into machines (and potentially having them break!) feels a lot more appropriate than the original half-caster, "but it's a good idea to say that it's a machine that produces the spell" of the original.

Weapons: I'm surprised that crossbows and geared slingshots aren't on the list.

Spell Invention: You say it weighs 1 pound per spell level. Is this no more than 1 pound, or at least 1 pound? Or must it be exactly 1 pound? I also hope that in the final version, you give a sample item or two. Also, each invention costs 1 gold (worth of material). Total, or per spell level? Personally, I think it should be per spell level. With a max of 5th level and therefore 5 gp, this isn't going to be a burden on most artificers who haven't been stripped of all possessions. (And even then, most artificers who have lost everything will still be able to find a BOX OF SCRAPS! to work with.)

But let me make sure I understand it. Say I'm 5th level. I have 2 spells prepared, each of which can be "cast" at 1st or 2nd level. How many inventions can I make? As many as I can afford? A number equal to my PB or Int mod? At 11th level, other people can use my inventions, and what with the Fizzle Die, there's a possible need for backups? This is important for Engineers and Stitchers, who can give up making inventions in order to add abilities to their pets.

Fizzle Dice: I love the idea. However, I remember when WotC was playtesting the psionics archetypes and used the psionic die, where on certain rolls you'd be burned out. A lot of people on Reddit really did not like it (I did, though). I feel the fizzle die does a great job of mixing magic and technology and showing they don't blend perfectly, but I have no idea if most people will agree.

Tactical Chemistry: Did you mean to say both torch and alchemical torch? Because I'd have regular torches as something anyone can make.

Schematic Books: Roughly how common should schematics be in the wild? As common as spell scrolls? Or always super-rare and unlikely to be found except in the possession of another artificer?

However, in keeping this on par with the wizard (and inscribing new spells into their spell books), I suggest that copying a new schematic into your book should take X time and cost Y gold per level of rarity of the item. It should take a longer time to create the schematic of a Rare item than it does for a Common item. (I also wish you had included a check for a wizard to learn spells in the same way you require artificers to make an Engineering check, but I know that was a backwards compatibility thing.)

Battlefield Smithing: Considering that objects other than weapons, armor, and vehicles can take damage and can become damaged and broken, maybe you want to have a generic Tinker option for this level, or turn the Caravan Smithing into a generic Tinker option.

Toxic Synthesis: Anyway, this ability is fine. I'd like to see more poisons on the list, or at least the possibility for poison "schematics," since Rogues also get the option for the Analysis trick which lets them learn poison recipes. Unless these recipes are already in T&T, because I haven't read the entire treasure section yet. Or perhaps instead of putting poisons on the list by name, maybe give a max gp value to the poisons that can be crafted. There are poisons in the o5e DMG that aren't in LU (to the best of my knowledge), as well as homebrew poisons. It'd be nice to be able to use them with this class.

Aside: Is it just me, or is curare really weak? With a save DC of 13 and only stunning for 1 round, it doesn't seem quite as potent to me as you guys are holding it up to be. Maybe if it were DC 15 or 17, or lasting for a minute with a save at the end of each turn, or even also doing some ongoing damage, I'd see it being worth 100 gp and being a 9th-level ability for artificers. I dunno.

Trinket Master: This seems pretty cool. I can't log into the LU Tools page anymore <sob!> so I can't see if there's a way to determine how many magic items cost 50 gp or less, but there are at least 10 50 gp items, so that's nice. I assume you still get the benefits of the long rest while making the item, yes?

Marvel of Innovation: Love this! It reminds me of the time I was running Ravenloft in GURPS and the "legitimate businessman no really" used a combination of the Create Ice spell and flavored syrups to invent icees and sell them.

Hotfixer: I assume this means "when you roll a 1 on the Fizzle Die," yes?

Inventor Sidebar: I'm being pedantic here, but you might want to specify that this is a new type of follower.

A Better Mousetrap: I like this a lot! However, I'd love to see a discovery that is designed to work with a rogue's traps, either for multiclass Artificers or simply to help out the party's rogue.

Modern Comforts: Also really neat. I take it this doesn't cause a risk of the invention malfunctioning?

Rope and Pulley Master: You need 300 feet of rope. Do you also need a block and tackle to use this ability, or is it assumed you are making one?

Now for the archetypes!

Alchemical Grenades: This seems kind of weak to me, since it deals a cantrip's damage but starts at 3rd level and has limited uses. Maybe it should do 1d10 or more damage instead of 1d6. Also, there's no option for a sleep grenade, which you know people are going to want to use.

Custom Vehicle: How long do these modifications last? If its permanent, that's a really good deal, since you can forgo all your spell inventions during a downtime. Also, while I'm pretty sure this is supposed to be a bike or car (or something similar), you might want to specify that it's a vehicle that doesn't require an animal to pull it. Otherwise you're going to get nitro burning funny oxen. (Hmm, can a multiclassed Artificer use Spirited Steed maneuvers on this vehicle?)

Stitcher Spells: I feel like some of these spells, especially gentle repose, should be swapped out for healing spells. They are doctors of a sort, after all. Fabricate and private sanctum seem like odd choices for them--they should be on the general Artificer spell list.

Monstrous Minion: This should be a construct, not a monstrosity. Also, how long does it take to tend to it with a sewing kit and again, how long do the modifications last?

Medical Sutures: A great idea, but it needs expanding: let's see some really wacky new limb abilities! They should be able to use minion modifications on living customers.

And finally, the spells. While most spells will be represented by weird devices, you are treating cantrips normally and... I kind of don't like it. I kind of want them either to be represented by a device that doesn't have a Fizzle Die, or to say that the artificer learned a bit of wizardry and thus can choose cantrips from the wizard's list.

My only other suggestion is to include an alchemist and/or a mutagen-based archetype, since I gather those are popular archetypes.

All-in-all, the A5e Artificer is quite good, and I can't wait to see the finished version!
 

oh ok if we're just gonna start popping off about the doc then sure let's do it
Spell Invention: You say it weighs 1 pound per spell level. Is this no more than 1 pound, or at least 1 pound? Or must it be exactly 1 pound? I also hope that in the final version, you give a sample item or two. Also, each invention costs 1 gold (worth of material). Total, or per spell level? Personally, I think it should be per spell level. With a max of 5th level and therefore 5 gp, this isn't going to be a burden on most artificers who haven't been stripped of all possessions. (And even then, most artificers who have lost everything will still be able to find a BOX OF SCRAPS! to work with.)
i'd also like to ask: do you pay the gold price every time you prepare your inventions, or only when you prepare a different spell, or only when you gain another spell to prepare? i ask because the last line before explaining the fizzle die is says you reintegrate them into new inventions.
also, i think it should be specified that you (or whoever uses the invention, at later levels) maintain concentration on any concentration spells as normal (unless that ISN'T the intent, which would be kind of crazy), just so it's clear that just because you're using an invention to cast the spell doesn't mean you don't need to maintain concentration.
But let me make sure I understand it. Say I'm 5th level. I have 2 spells prepared, each of which can be "cast" at 1st or 2nd level. How many inventions can I make? As many as I can afford? A number equal to my PB or Int mod? At 11th level, other people can use my inventions, and what with the Fizzle Die, there's a possible need for backups? This is important for Engineers and Stitchers, who can give up making inventions in order to add abilities to their pets.
you only create a number of inventions up to your prepared spell, because each of those inventions IS a prepared spell. at least, that's my understanding of it.
Schematic Books: Roughly how common should schematics be in the wild? As common as spell scrolls? Or always super-rare and unlikely to be found except in the possession of another artificer?

However, in keeping this on par with the wizard (and inscribing new spells into their spell books), I suggest that copying a new schematic into your book should take X time and cost Y gold per level of rarity of the item. It should take a longer time to create the schematic of a Rare item than it does for a Common item. (I also wish you had included a check for a wizard to learn spells in the same way you require artificers to make an Engineering check, but I know that was a backwards compatibility thing.)
i think the way schematic gold cost is handled is fine. rarer items will usually be more expensive anyways.
Battlefield Smithing: Considering that objects other than weapons, armor, and vehicles can take damage and can become damaged and broken, maybe you want to have a generic Tinker option for this level, or turn the Caravan Smithing into a generic Tinker option.
you could also have a generic tinker option alongside your option, but that might be much.
Aside: Is it just me, or is curare really weak? With a save DC of 13 and only stunning for 1 round, it doesn't seem quite as potent to me as you guys are holding it up to be. Maybe if it were DC 15 or 17, or lasting for a minute with a save at the end of each turn, or even also doing some ongoing damage, I'd see it being worth 100 gp and being a 9th-level ability for artificers. I dunno.
you create the curare through your tactical chemistry feature, which at this level lets you add your intelligence to the save. that takes the save DC from 13 to 16-18, depending on your intelligence (if your 9th level artificer has less then 16 int at this point, don't even talk to me honestly), which is a lot better.
Marvel of Innovation: Love this! It reminds me of the time I was running Ravenloft in GURPS and the "legitimate businessman no really" used a combination of the Create Ice spell and flavored syrups to invent icees and sell them.
my only problem with the marvel of innovation feature is that, aside from being able to create more valuable trade goods, this doesn't really do anything. it's basically just "you can make more money during downtime", which is...nice, i guess, but odd for an adventurer.

also, technological attunement is a crazy jump. you go from being able to attune to 3 items straight to 5 at level 14 (and you never get a 6th like in o5e, which is fine, but i like the idea of high level artificers just going "haha, attunement items go brr"). like, wow, yeah, level 14's a good spot for 5 items to attune to, but the jump gives me whiplash. getting a 4th earlier on (say, at level 10 with trinket master) would make this less jarring.
Hotfixer: I assume this means "when you roll a 1 on the Fizzle Die," yes?
your spell inventions have an AC (10+int) and hitpoints (twice artificer level), so i think it means if one of your inventions is destroyed by being targeted by an attack. though i agree it should specify if you can save an invention from fizzling out.

and laboratory of the master honestly feels like several class features mashed into one that all come online too late to really be of any use. like yeah, okay, a laboratory stronghold for my artificer is nice, but am i really going to play long enough after i hit level 20 for any of this stuff to actually matter? i think this should have been spread across a few levels (maybe level 14 for the expertise and followers, 17 for the grade 4 stuff, 20 for the grade 6 stuff? although just being able to get inspiration on a long rest for the 20th level ability might be underwhelming) so that the player could actually have time to really play with this stronghold.
Custom Vehicle: How long do these modifications last? If its permanent, that's a really good deal, since you can forgo all your spell inventions during a downtime. Also, while I'm pretty sure this is supposed to be a bike or car (or something similar), you might want to specify that it's a vehicle that doesn't require an animal to pull it. Otherwise you're going to get nitro burning funny oxen. (Hmm, can a multiclassed Artificer use Spirited Steed maneuvers on this vehicle?)
they last for as long as you keep giving up prepared spells to maintain them (you can think of it as preparing the modification instead of a spell).
and i'm going to be honest...i hate this. the idea itself is fine - giving up another class resource to get your modifications (although either way it feels a little cheap) - but why your spell inventions? this seems like something you should be giving up your infusions for, not your spells. giving up spells for these just doesn't follow in my mind, and also seems like it can really screw over your utility as a caster, which already isn't the best since you're a half-caster. honestly, i don't know why this takes a regular class resource anyways. the bombardier doesn't do this - why do the engineer and stitcher do it? but if we are going to be giving up class resources for these modifications, i don't think it should be your spells.

also, advanced grafting sucks really bad. i can kind of understand making the engineer's advanced modifications take an extra invention (even if i think it should be taking infusions instead), but you're going to make the stitcher not only need to give up an extra invention, but also have a fresh corpse (of a dragon or giant for two of them, no less!) on hand to make them (and if you also need the corpses to maintain those advanced modifications, then at that point they're just worthless)??? like, damn, way to kill a cool idea.

as for the bombardier, other then the low damage of the grenades (which is helped somewhat by the extra benefits you can put on one but still doesn't seem like enough), i think it's fine. maybe being able to bounce the grenades off walls to get them into tricker positions (like...actual grenades) and/or making the current wide burst standard for all alchemical grenades and making the wide burst expand the aoe even further would help instead of just increasing the damage.
And finally, the spells. While most spells will be represented by weird devices, you are treating cantrips normally and... I kind of don't like it. I kind of want them either to be represented by a device that doesn't have a Fizzle Die, or to say that the artificer learned a bit of wizardry and thus can choose cantrips from the wizard's list.
...they are represented by a device that doesn't have a fizzle die (or a weight, but cantrips are technically 0 level spells so that checks out). it says so right at the start of the cantrips section.

overall, i like this artificer, but i think the engineer and stitcher archetypes seem kind of doomed to fail due to the fact that their modifications dig into your spells, and a couple of the base class abilities sort of just run up and punch you in the face when they really should be more steadily introduced (especially the capstone, ironically enough). maybe playtesting will prove me wrong, but those are my first impressions.
 


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