Please Help: Tail Blade

[Ambrus]

I was wondering if a rules-guru familiar with this item could explain to me how it's intended to function as part of a creature's natural attack routine. For those who don't know, the tail blade is a exotic weapon from Savage Species which is essentially a sword that is strapped to the tip of a creature's tail, transforming it into a lethal weapon.

What I want to know is if the blade is considered to be the creature's primary weapon; which would allow it to be wielded with the creature's full BAB progression (including multiple attacks) and all of the creature's natural attacks are then considered secondary attacks which are all rolled at a flat BAB -5 as normal.

The other possibility that I imagine is that the tail blade is intended to just be an extra secondary attack which is rolled normally at BAB -5 along with all other secondary attack.

Any help is appreciated.

 

[Palskane]

Unless a tail slap is already listed as a creature's primary attack, I would rule it as a secondary attack.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

Any chance you can actually post the description of the item? It's possible it works in one of several ways, and I can't answer based on the information already provided.

 

[Jdvn1]

I would guess the only effect is that it makes the tail deal slashing damage, instead of bludgeoning.

 

[Ambrus]

IRC (I don't have my book handy at the moment) the tail blade's description is very brief and essentially says that it allows a creature to use its tail in combat and that one should reference the Multiattack and Multi-weapon fighting feats for rules on using multiple weapons in combat. Maybe someone helpful with the book handy could give us the description?

 

[Ambrus]

I would guess the only effect is that it makes the tail deal slashing damage, instead of bludgeoning.

The tail blade (and its blunt counterpart the tail-club) are intended to be used by creatures with tails that aren't normally useful in combat.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

Ah - that, unfortunately, doesn't really help.

Since it references the Multiweapon fighting feats, one could infer that the tailblade is treated as a manufactured weapon. Accordingly, it could not be used as a primary or secondary natural attack.

However, it also references Multiattack, which applies only to natural weapons.

I'll definately need the full stat block in order to give you the right answer now.

 

[Ambrus]

I'll definately need the full stat block in order to give you the right answer now.

As you wish.

Tail Blade: This weapon consists of a blade and the sheath and harness necessary to attach it to a creature's tail. The version presented here if for a Medium-size creature, such as lizardfolk. When using a tail blade, the creature may make a melee attack with it at its full attack bonus and no other attacks, or it can make a tail blade attack in addition to its other melee attacks. See multiweapon Fighting and Multidexterity in the Monster Manual for resulting penalties to attack rolls.

(Exotic, Medium, 17 gp, 1d8, 19-20/x2, 6 lb, slashing)

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

Ahah - Multiweapon Fighting and Multidexterity!!!

That answers our questions, now. Note that, in 3.5, they've been rolled together into Multiweapon Fighting (just as Two Weapon Fighting and Ambidexterity have been rolled into TWF).

It's a manufactured weapon.

As such, it cannot be used as a primary or secondary natural attack. Treat it just like you would a human with two longswords (or other TWF combo) using the TWF rules, including however you determine when the penalties apply. The Tail Blade is not a light weapon, according to this description, and so the minimum penalties are going to be -4 / -4 / etc.

 

[IcyCool]

Part of the problem here is that Savage Species isn't really 3.5, and it isn't really 3.0. The references to multidexterity is a 3.0 reference, and so is the weapon category "medium". The reference to Multiweapon fighting is useful though. That seems to imply that this is a manufactured weapon. If you look at the multiweapon fighting feat, it replaces the Two-weapon fighting feat for a critter with 3 or more attacking limbs. To my understanding, you'd suffer the normal two-weapon fighting penalties.

As such, you'd have a primary hand, and all of your other limbs that were attack would be your "off-hands". If you have the multi-weapon fighting feat and your off-hand weapons are light, then each attack is at -2.

Assuming that there is a light weapon version of the tail weapon, you could have a lizardman attack with a longsword in his primary hand, a shortsword (light weapon) in his off-hand, and a light tail blade in his "off-hand/tail". All of those attacks would be at -2. Unfortunately, Savage Species doesn't use the whole "light/one-handed/two-handed" weapon categories. Going from the 3.0 PHB though, I see that most 3.5 light weapons were "small" in 3.0, and most one-handed weapons were "medium" in 3.0. So my guess is that the "medium" tail weapon is not light.