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D&D 5E Please Put Spell Blocks in all Modules

I just don't think it's warranted. And I really don't think you need the spells seperate from monsters themselves. I mean

Shocking Grasp Cantrip+int+pro 1action touch armor at adv 1d20+0 lightning 1d8+0 +1d8 at 5th.... (no reactions till start of next turn...etc)?

Shocking Grasp, +5, action, touch, (adv against armor) 1d8+3 (7) lighting.


how is that not one line?

I mean, if you're the DM, I'm going to have to say, I kind of expect you to understand the underlying mechanics of 5th edition. You should know that spell attacks are proficiency+spellcasting mod. You should know how damage is calculated, etc.

The shorter description that is listed is over 70 characters. With the book formatting and font size, it will go over 1 line. It is also lacking the no reactions until next turn note which means that some will forget about it. The arguments for including spells have only used attack spells as examples. Abjuration and several other spell schools don't follow any pattern and need a longer description to communicate what they do.

We do know the underlying mechanics. We do not even need to know that the spellcasting modifier is ability mod + proficiency and that this is added to attack rolls or added to 8 for the DC. The attack roll bonus and DC are already printed in the spellcaster's stat block. What is missing and difficult to effectively communicate in a condensed form are what makes each spell special and unique.

During my conversion of the Age of Worms adventure path to 5e, I have had to write up a lot of creature stat blocks. I tried several different ways of getting spell information into the stat block. It just does not work. The descriptions could not fit in one line, and they either were to butchered to convey any meaning or quite long. In the end, I have printed up the full spell blocks to go with any spellcasters.

There are several ways for a DM (like me) who needs the extra information to get what they want. What I am moving toward is printing my own spell cards. It is easy to set up a Word label template with either an Excel or Access back end. A quick mail merge and you have the spells you want printed out. You can print on some thin card stock, cut them out, then slip them into a plastic trading card sheet and they come along with the rest of your notes. Each spellcaster can have there own sheet(s). That way the spells are there in full and it takes moments to look it up.

If/when I get this put together, I will put it up for anyone to use. Although for copyright reasons there will not be any data in it.
 

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Disagree. Spell blocks in the stats aren't needed. We never had em in 3.x or earlier. Those editions ran just fine.

Funny, but there are some in various modules for AD&D2E, and for BXCMI. Not consistently, but sometimes. B4 has notes on saves for the natural spells of the included new monsters, for example, but nothing on the magic items of NPCs other than the name.
B3 has some notes on saves versus monster attacks, even tho' the monster is a standard version.
 

Sorry, it was not a reading comprehension issue. I just missed the line where you said it might be int instead of dex. I comprehended it just fine when I checked it now. :)

I do not believe I was being defensive. I did specifically state that I was not attacking you but demonstrating how difficult it was to include everything for a spell in a couple of lines. I do value your opinion and the opinion of others who come down on both sides of an issue,. See the end of this post for evidence of that. Setting up a straw man is not going to help.

I am aware that there have been plenty of calls for more information in spellcasters stat blocks. Spells in a spellcaster's stat block have been lists of names for a long time (maybe not exclusively, but my limited experience of past editions has been that way), and I do not expect it to change. I do not enjoy looking up spells myself. I would venture that almost no DMs enjoy that. While some DMs have almost all of it memorized and others look it up, I copy and paste or type up the spells that a creature uses so that I have a copy of everything available for the creature. It takes a few minutes, but I am prepared at the table.

You seem to enjoy going through that effort. Not everyone is so pleased to have to do it to make up for a printing deficiency. That also assumes you have the time to do it, you are by a computer, and are not running a pick-up game or something. Also by the same argument you can simply copy and past all the creatures you need too and you don't need them in the adventure either, unless they're new. Putting a line or 2 listing the important stats of the combat spells doesn't take much space, it is an easy thing for WotC to do, and it speeds up running the game.
 

Disagree. Spell blocks in the stats aren't needed. We never had em in 3.x or earlier. Those editions ran just fine.

I can tell you from running campaigns with lots of spellcasting npcs in 3e, it was slow as hell. I was delighted when 4e printed all of the creature's abilities. Groups of demons and devils in particular sucked in 3e because you had to waste so much time looking up what Chaos Hammer did for instance and how it behaved for creatures of various alignments. 5e is worse because spells scale differently with higher slots.
 

You seem to enjoy going through that effort. Not everyone is so pleased to have to do it to make up for a printing deficiency. That also assumes you have the time to do it, you are by a computer, and are not running a pick-up game or something. Also by the same argument you can simply copy and past all the creatures you need too and you don't need them in the adventure either, unless they're new. Putting a line or 2 listing the important stats of the combat spells doesn't take much space, it is an easy thing for WotC to do, and it speeds up running the game.
With all that I have contributed to this thread, whether you agreed with it or not, your takeaway is that I enjoy going through the extra effort? Conversation about column widths, whether adequate information can be communicated in such a short space, the trade-off between increased spell info and loss of other content is ignored, and starting with an ad hominem attack is the order of the day?

I can assure you that I do not enjoy expending more effort on preparation than is necessary and do not think many would enjoy it at all, but I do think I understand why they were not included, and I look for solutions. One solution that seems to be working for is to print the needed spell information ahead of time. Because I am running on an adventure path, I get that opportunity to prepare ahead of time. While those who run a quick pick up game would not have that opportunity, I imagine that the number of pick up games as a percentage of all D&D played is fairly small. That is not to say they are not a valid part of the hobby. One does not need a computer for this preparation either. A stack of note cards and a writing implement would allow for the creation of spell cards, or one note card could be used per NPC with an abbreviated spell info list written on it.

While direct combat spells follow a general list of info including attack roll or DC and other information, many other spells do not. Looking at basic D&D, on the first spell page 2 out of the 5 spells could possibly be communicated effectively in two lines. On the second page, 1 out of 4 could be communicated effectively. On the third page, maybe 1 out of 6. If writing out 2-line summaries only works for about 20% of spells (1-line really does not seem to work at all), then it does not seem to really work as a solution. If all spells in stat blocks were represented as 2-line summaries regardless, there would be a lot of information lost, and spells would probably not be used with all of the exceptions, special cases and conditional bonuses that they contain. 4e had spell info in the stat blocks, but it seems like 4e spellcasters had 1/4 to 1/2 the spells of 5e. The full spell information was included, so all the information was available, but other story content did not make it into an adventure because of the long style of 4e stat blocks. This is a problem unique to printed material. If an adventure was digital then it would not have that restriction.

Yes, I agree that creatures that are not unique to an adventure (i.e. not in the MM) should not be in an adventure. That is how the Hoard of the Dragon Queen book was written. Its appendices only contain unique backgrounds, NPCs, monsters and magic items. Each item in those categories that is not unique is included by reference.

While putting a couple lines per spell does not take up much space per spell, it adds up. There are 102 spells in NPC stat blocks in HotDQ. While I would argue that 2-line summaries are insufficient to communicate spell information, at two lines per spell, that is 204 lines. There are about 120 lines per page, so those lines would take up almost 2 pages. At 96 pages, that is about 2% of the book. So, what get's cut to make room for that? The custom backgrounds and the full page map at the beginning could go. Aside from that, things are much more difficult. The descriptions of map areas are already fairly lean, and the introductions to each chapter could be argued to be necessary. WotC decided that more story content was the way to go, and they did not include spell descriptions in stat blocks.

I agree that having the correct spells on hand greatly helps the speed and flow of encounters. While players can (and should!) plan ahead during a round to figure out what their next spell or action should be, the DM does not get that opportunity. Given the decisions they had to make, I think WotC chose the right way to write the spell blocks, but that leaves me without the spell information at my fingertips. While WotC could have included that information, there would be a cost involved. My solution is to print that information ahead of time. Since my weekly game is a 3.5 advenure path converted to 5e, I have to type up all the creatures anyway, and I pretty much know that the party will encounter the NPCs at some point. There are plenty of other solutions to this, including spell cards. Dungeonscape is another. In the end, everyone will have to find a solution that works for them.
 

I can tell you from running campaigns with lots of spellcasting npcs in 3e, it was slow as hell. I was delighted when 4e printed all of the creature's abilities. Groups of demons and devils in particular sucked in 3e because you had to waste so much time looking up what Chaos Hammer did for instance and how it behaved for creatures of various alignments. 5e is worse because spells scale differently with higher slots.

Good point. It would be nice to list which spell slots the monster spell casters will use and which spells. As the Dungeon Master who must pick all the spells and slots during the game because I have little time before the game to prepare, (Don't judge. Some of us have demanding jobs and families who are still desperately trying to hold on to an old hobby and recapture their youth.) I sometimes feel like I'm competing against the players.

I have heard some of the poorest excuses from module designers during play testing. Frankly, these excuses are why previous editions have failed.

Excuse 1: I'm not going to play test the monsters I create for my module. Let the players and dungeon master play test them.

Excuse 2: I'm not going to list a spell block for each spell because they are already listed in the PHB. Let the DM chose the spells and spell slots as needed.

Jason Bulmahn designed some low level modules that are just excellent. The reason why is that he listed a lot of information that did a lot of work for me already.
 

Add me to the list of people who doesn't want to see spell descriptions in stat blocks, at least for the common spells in the PH. Same with common monster stats. I have the PH, I have the MM. I don't want to see valuable page count taken up by repeated material from the Core Three books that should always be sitting on the table.

On the other hand, I'd be annoyed to see spells or monsters listed that assumed you had materials outside the Core Three, unless it was for a specific setting. I recall older modules which had spell lists asterisked with "** from Unearthed Arcana" and "*** from Tome of Magic", and similar. Sometimes, these modules would include the helpful line: "If you don't have these resources, feel free to replace with a similar spell from another source". As if that helped.

So, maybe explicit descriptions for non-core spells (which should be used sparingly, anyway). But please don't remove adventure, story and graphical content for telling me... again... what a fireball does.
 

It's wasted space to reprint what can easily be looked up.

And that used up space would have to take away from other areas of the product. I think that the idea of doing it yourself so you have a cheat sheet ready is much preferable to losing word count elsewhere to reprinted material. Is it really that much "extra work" to flip open the PHB?
 


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