Please rate Improved Overrun

[smetzger]

What is the usefulness/must have of Improved Overrun

Improved Overrun [General]
REQ: Expertise, Improved Bull Rush, Improved Trip, Str 13+, Power Attack
When you attempt to overrun an opponent who is at least one size category smaller than you the target cannot avoid you. If you knock down your opponent, you immediately get an attack of opportunity against that opponent gaining the standard +4 on attack rolls against prone targets. Sword and Fist, pg 7

 

[Forrester]

Are we rating this feat for *characters* to take?

I mean, it's nice for Big Baddies of size L+, but most characters aren't size L+, meaning the feat is horribly, horribly bad for them for obvious reasons.

And frankly, it's not too good for those who *are* size L+ simply because there's so many damn prereqs.

I'd score it "ok" for monsters and "horribly bad" for PCs. I take it the latter opin' is the one suitable for the poll?

 

[kreynolds]

Has anybody else noticed that the very instant smetzger posts one of these bloody polls that nearly all trafic in the rules forum comes to a frickin' standstill?

Just wonderin'...

 

[Crothian]

Has anybody else noticed that the very instant smetzger posts one of these bloody polls that nearly all trafic in the rules forum comes to a frickin' standstill?

Just wonderin'...

I would have noticed, but for some reason i feel this sudedeen need to not even look at the rules forum to notice.

 

[Darkness]

I would have noticed, but for some reason i feel this sudedeen need to not even look at the rules forum to notice.

Me too...

Anyway... Could a permanently enlarged character use the feat better?

 

[Gaiden]

For standard race PCs, the feat is only useful for a dragon disciple when s/he gets the size increase (I believe at level 5 - don't have books with me). Even then the feat is only useful, if the character focuses on overrunning tactics (complete with mobility, SA, expertise, improved trip, knockdown, etc.) If the character is not designed around being large and movement on the battlefield, then the feat is utterly useless. About the only other character concept I can think of off the top of my head that would at all benefit from this feat is a ranger (or any other class with a favored enemy or similar concept) who has chosen as his foe some type of creature smaller than himself.

The notion of permanent enlargement deserves further consideration. However, given the limited combat feats that a magic user gets (in general) this feat is extremely costly.

 

[Jeremy]

I believe it's meant as a mounted feat like Trample.

Or am I totally wrong? I really should look at the books before I post.

 

[kreynolds]

I believe it's meant as a mounted feat like Trample.

Nope.

Or am I totally wrong?

Yup.

I really should look at the books before I post.

Nah. I've been guilty of it too.

 

[reapersaurus]

it sucks.

it's much weaker than trample, and WHY you have to be smart to Overrun people is beyond me.

For my PC Ubaar, I wanted him to be able to Trample people like his diety, The Thunderbeast, but to do so would require 13+ INT and a buttload of feats.

Absolutely absurd for the weak benefit you get.

Just because they chose to have the Overrun mechanic when you bulldoze someone use the same mechanic as when you trip someone does NOT mean that Overrunning should require Improved Trip in any way, shape, or form.

In fact, if I thought it thru, it would make me think the designers were VERY sloppy and lazy when designing Overrun (and especially Improved Overrun)

 

[smetzger]

Are we rating this feat for *characters* to take?

I mean, it's nice for Big Baddies of size L+, but most characters aren't size L+, meaning the feat is horribly, horribly bad for them for obvious reasons.

And frankly, it's not too good for those who *are* size L+ simply because there's so many damn prereqs.

I'd score it "ok" for monsters and "horribly bad" for PCs. I take it the latter opin' is the one suitable for the poll?

Its definantly better for a L+ character to take the feat. I would consider the feat unusable for anyone of less than Large size, similar to a Metamagic feat for a level 1 Wizard (largely unusable).

Anyway after 11 votes, it has an average of 3.27 which puts it at number 10.

1. Expert Tactician 7.86
2. Close-Quarters Fighting 5.42
3. Hold the Line 5.00
4. Blindsight, 5-foot radius 4.80
5. Fists of Iron 4.65
6. Death Blow 4.36
7. Feign Weakness 3.63
8. Extra Stunning Attacks 3.56
9. Dual Strike 3.43
10. Improved Overrun 3.27
11. Circle Kick 3.13
12. Eyes in the Back of Your Head 3.04
13. Eagle Claw Attack 2.73
14. Dirty Fighting 2.58

Should it be higher or lower on the list?