Please stop paying full price for rulebooks.

[zorlag]

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Just stop buying books by impulse. You really don't need many of them anyway. I'm doing it now and found out that I'm not missing much... Sure there are good new books coming out but I can easily keep my games going without buying dozens of hardcovers in addition to all those I already have.

Z.

 

[Mouseferatu]

I'm going to be generous and assume this thread is the product of incomplete information, and is not a troll.

But really, price gauging? In RPG books?!?!

Do you have any idea how close to the line most RPG companies ride? I don't just mean the small no-names, I mean even the larger companies. Nobody gets rich off these. The average profit margin on most RPG books, to my knowledge, is in the 3 to 8 percent range.

Think about that. 3 to 8 percent. Yeah, that's really a price gauge, isn't it?

You want to know what would happen if people stopped paying full price for rulebooks? The industry--not a few companies, the industry--would collapse. Sure, some few would survive, but you'd be limited to PDFs and seriously crappy books. Meanwhile, most of the good writers, artists, etc. would be forced to find work in different fields, where they could actually make at least a little bit of money, thus making the few surviving products even crappier.

I love a good "whine about the economy" session as much as the next guy, but let's keep it realistic, okay?

 

[S'mon]

The average profit margin on most RPG books, to my knowledge, is in the 3 to 8 percent range.

Maybe the publisher gets 3-8 per cent profit on the cover price, but the real price gouging comes in with the distributors (especially) and to a lesser extent the retailers. In the regular book trade at any rate, the publisher sells to the distributor at around 1/6 the cover price, distributor sells to retailer around 4/6.
The retailer markup may well be justifiable (and if they want they can sell at 25% off and still make a profit) but I can never understand why distributors should get such a huge chunk, other than price-fixing and market dominance. This is why Games Workshop's own-store business model works so well - not because games publishing or retailing are greatly profitable, but because they cut out the distributors.

Any games distributors here to correct me?

 

[Darrin Drader]

Any games distributors here to correct me?

Not a game distributor, not even a publisher, just someone who works in the industry. The fact is that even the distributors often have a hard time turning a profit. That's why there's been a long trend in the industry for these guys to go belly up sooner or later. The truth of the matter is that I don't know any single company, whether it be the manufacturer, fulfillment houses, distributors, or even the retailers who are making money hand over fist. In most cases just about everyone involved is doing it for the love of it and could be making a lot more money elsewhere with the business sense they have.

 

[TalonComics]

I can correct you. Distributors usually get books at about 60% off cover. However, Wizards of the Coast, WizKids, White Wolf and Games Workshop don't give that kind of discount to them. I know WotC works about a 50 to 54% discount of cover to distributors with WizKids being about the same. White Wolf's discount just lowered but I'm not sure by how much.

My discount, as a retailer, is based on how much I buy in a quarter of a year. The exceptions are the companies listed above which have a flat discount lower than my max discount. Add the fact that WotC places a street date on all of their product in which the distributors have to enforce but WotC does not then you see how crappy it starts to become.

As for price gouging: How do you expect distributors and retailers to pay rent and utilities if there's no retail price? It's not like we're marking the books up past the Suggested Retail Price which is right on the back of the books. Now that would be gouging! As it is I sell all RPG books at 15%. With the revised core rulebooks I'm biting the bullet and selling them for 25% off. It hurts but as a gamer and a retailer I want to help out somehow.

~D

 

[TalonComics]

Not a game distributor, not even a publisher, just someone who works in the industry. The fact is that even the distributors often have a hard time turning a profit. That's why there's been a long trend in the industry for these guys to go belly up sooner or later. The truth of the matter is that I don't know any single company, whether it be the manufacturer, fulfillment houses, distributors, or even the retailers who are making money hand over fist. In most cases just about everyone involved is doing it for the love of it and could be making a lot more money elsewhere with the business sense they have.

That's for sure! I'm not doing this to get rich! lol
I sell games and comics because I love them. If that ever goes away that's when I go do something else.

~D

 

[Number47]

I support anyone getting the best price they can on books. I do. But to think they are too expensive, what are you thinking? This isn't a work of fiction we're talking about here. It is closer in scope to a textbook, with research and design, testing and editing, full color printing and hardcover binding. Have you looked at the price of textbooks? Not to mention, even a hardcover of simple fiction is going for something like $20 these days, with large print runs, single color interior and mass distribution.

 

[S'mon]

As for price gouging: How do you expect distributors and retailers to pay rent and utilities if there's no retail price? It's not like we're marking the books up past the Suggested Retail Price which is right on the back of the books. Now that would be gouging! As it is I sell all RPG books at 15%. With the revised core rulebooks I'm biting the bullet and selling them for 25% off. It hurts but as a gamer and a retailer I want to help out somehow.

Thanks for corrections, all - the only figures I've seen were for the UK book trade, traditionally a cosy little business where until recently the Net Book Agreement banned retailers from offering any discount off books' cover price.

Would I be right that (unlike the book trade) the games publishers don't offer sale-or-return deals, ie you can get stuck with unsellable stock? I seem to recall the first time TSR did agree to such a deal, it went bust...

 

[Destil]

http://www.seankreynolds.com/rpgfiles/rants/rpgsaretooexpensive.html

 

[TalonComics]

Don't forget the shear amount of entertainment value of roleplaying games. You can buy the three revised core rulebooks and use them forever! I've played hundreds of hours of gaming with my friends and gotten to know some very cool people because of gaming. That is priceless as far as I'm concerned (and probably a potential Mastercard commerical ).

~D