Please test Grapple

[Nymrohd]

Didn't we see something about limitations on "sliding" enemies around, in that you can only do it to enemies one size category larger than you, your size, and smaller? It might also apply to grappling.

Grapple - You can attempt a grapple check with anything that is within 1 size category of you. To initiate, you make a Strength Check vs. Reflex Defense. This also doesn't provoke an Opportunity Attack. If you fail, nothing happens. If you succeed, you cause your target to be "Immobilized" for one round. The target can escape his immobilized condition using an Acrobatics or Athletics check. You may move the target 1 square by succeeding on an additional grapple check in the following round.

http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=220310

 

[Nymrohd]

Also I seem to remember reading that the acrobatics check would be vs Reflex and the athletics vs Fortitude, but my memory had failed me before.

 

[The Little Raven]

Grapple - You can attempt a grapple check with anything that is within 1 size category of you. To initiate, you make a Strength Check vs. Reflex Defense. This also doesn't provoke an Opportunity Attack. If you fail, nothing happens. If you succeed, you cause your target to be "Immobilized" for one round. The target can escape his immobilized condition using an Acrobatics or Athletics check. You may move the target 1 square by succeeding on an additional grapple check in the following round.

Ooooooh. I like.

Acrobatics = "I slip from his grasp."
Athletics = "I break free of his hold."

Just gets better and better.

 

[Nymrohd]

Still that means that you cannot grapple a creature two size categories smaller than you. While for 3+ I understand this (it would be to small to hold in place, it could slip through your fingers) a creature 2 categories smaller should be big enough to reliable hold in one hand (and toss of the bridge).

 

[jodyjohnson]

Still that means that you cannot grapple a creature two size categories smaller than you. While for 3+ I understand this (it would be to small to hold in place, it could slip through your fingers) a creature 2 categories smaller should be big enough to reliable hold in one hand (and toss of the bridge).

I think this falls under the yes-but clause.

While sure "I grab the rat by the tail and bash it's head against the wall - it's dead" sounds fine, I don't want to be on the receiving end of a "The fire titan grabs you by the leg and dashes your brain out against the wall - you're dead." When I had 120 hp left.

It falls under the earlier mentioned principle where once an attack can potentially bypass the hit point mechanics maybe you should try to do the same thing another way.

As in "I attack the rat and kill it by grabbing it by the tail and bashing it against the wall or tossing it off the bridge." (and the actual rolls confirm it.)

Once you go two sizes smaller grabbing them in game turns shifts from "I can mess with them" to "They are completely at my mercy". Especially true in the current grappling rules.

 

[Elder-Basilisk]

Strangely, I seem to be some kind of combat prodigy then because I could wrestle with my dad by the time I was five. I couldn't win unless he let me of course, but I could do a heck of a lot more than grab his shirt. As it happens, that's true of nearly everyone.

In a few years when they're anouncing 5th edition, whoever the designers are will have the "you can't even try A, B, C, E, F, H, I, J, K, L, M, N, O, P, Q, S, T, U, V, W, and X because you don't have the powers" (apparently you do have D, G, R, Y, and Z) as number one in their list of why 4th edition sucks so badly it was a wonder anyone ever played it posts. (Not that the fact they will be posting it will mean it's true--witness all the garbage that's said about 3.5--but it will be one of the things they list as a justifying complaint)

No.

Any high school bully can grab a nerd by his shirt, but that doesn't make him Royce Gracie. Beyond basic grabs, you should have powers, just like you do beyond basic attacks.

 

[hong]

In a few years when they're anouncing 5th edition, whoever the designers are will have the "you can't even try A, B, C, E, F, H, I, J, K, L, M, N, O, P, Q, S, T, U, V, W, and X because you don't have the powers" (apparently you do have D, G, R, Y, and Z) as number one in their list of why 4th edition sucks so badly it was a wonder anyone ever played it posts.

Quite possibly. And I may even be one of those agreeing with them. See, it's like a generic food metaphor. I might enjoy likening things to peanut butter. But after doing this a lot, I'll get bored of it and want to liken things to ice cream instead. And after I've got my fill of ice cream metaphors, I'll want to go back to peanut butter metaphors.