Point Buy Method: What is a good number?

[Wolfen Priest]

Yes

I am running a campaign that uses a 32 point buy. I think it's perfect.

The players will have no reason to complain. All the characters will have equality, which is good. They won't be too weak, which is good, especially at low levels (TPK won't be nearly as much of a problem).

Let's face it. DMs enjoy being tough on players. It makes the game challenging. 32 point buy is an excellent way to let players make up their own characters ahead of time so the group won't have to waste time making up characters. All they need to do is roll hit points.

It's much better than rolling 4d6 drop the lowest. Chance will always be a part of the game, but ONE SET of die rolls at character creation becomes the most important roll you will ever make (as a player)... which is simply too important, if you ask me.

 

[hong]

(1) You want to run a magic poorer campaign but still keep the power level similar to standard.

(2) You as a DM are less comfortable with high level magic spells. Stats make you better at what you already are, not qualitatively different.

(3) Monks & Paladins are hosed by lean stats. Higher point totals let them beef up those supporting attributes to 12 or 14 on the cheap, falling only slightly behind characters to are pushing into the 16's & 17's at high prices.

(4) You want to play a character who captures the imagination, and high stats do that better than low ones. Assuming the DM feels the same way, that is.

 

[Limper]

(4) You want to play a character who captures the imagination, and high stats do that better than low ones. Assuming the DM feels the same way, that is.

hong: How do you handle it when the DM and you see this in opposite light's? I think you've summed up a reoccuring problem in my games. Good show.

As to point buy: 32 is the lowest I like to use. I agree with hong,s above statement.

 

[Corinth]

25 works just fine. That's what the game's calibrated for.

 

[Shard O'Glase]

I just don't like the increased cost of high stats in point buy. It seems way to much like strong arm tactics so players make the characters I want instead of the ones they want. If someone want to make super strong guy instead of somewhat strong guy he shouldn't be punished any more than the actual bonus given to him. Ans since the bonuses grow at a standard rate +1 per 2 points the cost should grow at the same rate. Yes any point buy system as some DM strong arming since he/she is the determiner of total points, I just think extra costs for high stats is going to far.

Persoanlly I like to discuss with the players what type of capaign they want to play, and come to some consensus. i then hand out an appropriate number of points, 25 points seems to come up a lot since they frequently want to go for a lower powered style campaign.

 

[Reprisal]

Quoth Shard O'Glase

I just don't like the increased cost of high stats in point buy. It seems way to much like strong arm tactics so players make the characters I want instead of the ones they want. If someone want to make super strong guy instead of somewhat strong guy he shouldn't be punished any more than the actual bonus given to him. Ans since the bonuses grow at a standard rate +1 per 2 points the cost should grow at the same rate. Yes any point buy system as some DM strong arming since he/she is the determiner of total points, I just think extra costs for high stats is going to far.

Persoanlly I like to discuss with the players what type of capaign they want to play, and come to some consensus. i then hand out an appropriate number of points, 25 points seems to come up a lot since they frequently want to go for a lower powered style campaign.

I'm going to have to disagree with you here... While you may call it "strong-arming," I would call it the DM's Prerogative. The term "strong-arming" makes it seem like its highway robbery or something... No, I don't believe that at all. If the players do not trust their DM enough to follow his guidelines, then a good campaign is that much farther away... Of course, trust should be reciprocal, but it seems that a player's mistrust of the DM is just as frequent as a DM's mistrust of the player.

As far as higher costs for higher stats goes, I'm still on the fence for that one. I can see the use of such a system, heck, my favourite system (DP9's Silhouette) has that sort of thing in spades.

Just looking at it, I can see the benefits of the 1:1 ratio...

Is there anyone who's given the DMG Point-Buy and the 1:1 Point-Buy a thorough once-over?

 

[Ace]

Points? When I used them I went for 40 points or so, I like fairly powerfull characters and believe me while I am squarely on the players side, I am very tough as a DM.

Recently however I just stopped using points and let the players take what stats they like for their characters.

Odd as it seems I have less trouble with that system then with the disparity of die rolling or the sometimes stuffy limits of point buy.

Obviously I reserve the right to reject characters that are out of line but buy and large the players are pretty happy with the pick system.

Another option that works well for me is to make the characters myself.
Give me your name, race class background etc and I will make character to fit.

The players seems to like this option pretty well too.

 

[laiyna]

I found out that 25 point buy works well till level 6 or so, then the casters need higher stats to be able to cast spells. A 16 is very expensive with 25 point buy (way to expensive).

This is why I use 28 point buy, and it gives for casters prity high stats, for the fighters/rogues also some damn good combat stats. And from a RPG isue, at 28 points I see less an 8 on Cha becouse the players feel they can afford a bit more (or is this that I actualy play out a low charisma ????).

Above 28 I found it more a superman campaign. The wizard did everything alone, and I even saw Dwarf Sorcerers..... Also you will have less fighter/rogues. At 32 point buy my high stats will make enough up for that.
A sorcerer with a str 10, dex 16, con 13, int 10, wis 8, cha 17 and weapon finesse on a rapier works fairly well..... (armor spell, cats grace, mith buckler +1 and the lvl stat bonus on cha and con)

Lai

 

[Reprisal]

I found out that 25 point buy works well till level 6 or so, then the casters need higher stats to be able to cast spells. A 16 is very expensive with 25 point buy (way to expensive).

I dunno about that... With a 15 in one of the spell-casting attributes, you can cast right up into the 5th level of spells.

At fourth level, you can put that up to 16; and at eighth, it can be raised to 17... And so on and so forth. Even with "only" a fifteen, any focused character will be able to stay ahead of the "casting ability curve."

High stats shouldn't be a necessity, at least, that's what I'd like to think...

 

[Doc_Subtlety]

For me, it depends on genre:

If I want the players to be relatively normal types, thrust into a greater world, I like 25. I've made some extremely powerful characters on 25 points, too: an ass kicking Cleric of Fharlangan, and a Monte Cook Sorcerer that survived until 4th level with *no* damage spells (lasted 'til the campaign folded - I learned that Daze + Spell Focus: Enchantment = Cantrip of Death ).

IMO, anybody who can't live on low point totals is stuck in a 2E paradigm. 10 is a perfectly reasonable stat for something you're not specialized in, and 25 buys lots of 10s, and one 16.

Most games, 28 or 32 is fine. The big difference is Feat access: characters with 32 points will have an easier time qualifying for diverse Feat trees (it makes things like Fighters with Spring Attack way more common).

If I want Epic Heroes, I hand out 36, and I raise the starting level. This does skew CRs a little - the party's ECL is maybe +1 or +2, like this. I usually do this so I can make more interesting monsters - I like giving the baddies extra stat points and abilities, too.

Side note:
Contrary to popular opinion here, I haven't seen characters act any less interdependent on the basis of attribute points. A Fighter or Wizard with an 18 Con still needs Cure spells, and a Cleric with an 18 Str still can't tank like a real Fighter - not enough Feats or BAB. I haven't seen it create any game breaking scenarios.