Point Buy vs. Die Rolling Ability Scores

[Greybar]

My players have mention conflicting desires for character creation. It's largely academic now since we're in mid play rather that startup, but character death is always possible. Some prefer the control of the point buy, some dislike the sameness that results. We've all heard these discussions before, pro and con. I'm posting this in the D&D Rules instead of House Rules since I do not propose any new rules, but rather an analysis of the established rules. It's quite likely this analysis has already been done, but since I whipped it up during lunch away from my books I thought I'd share.

Summary:
The "4d6 drop low" method appears to match a 28 point buy, roughly. The average is a hair above (28.3) with a standard deviation of 8.5 or so.

Notes:
* I used an empirical estimation (lots of die rolls done by Excel) rather than pure math.
* The 4d6 method allows results below the 8 that is the minimum for the point-buy method. Assume that negative points are gained that mirror the positive costs for the purposes of comparing the methods.

As a result, I plan to offer either the 4d6 method or the 28-point buy for new characters in my game. Due to the high variability of the 4d6, if a character ends up with a result that would be more than a 32 point buy or less than a 24 point buy then we'll wrangle the numbers.

I'd appreciate any thoughts or analysis. I figure someone has already done such work, so if people could share links that'd be great.

Enjoy!

John

 

[kengar]

With my players, one of the big advantages of point-buy is equity. No one has "better" scores than anyone else. Of course, someof my players are a bit competitive, so YMMV.

 

[Berk]

Why would you even offer to roll dice since you will want them to mess with their scores if they rolled more then what they could achieve with a 32 point buy?

 

[Greybar]

Yup, I could see how competitiveness would be an issue. Fortunately I don't think my players are as competitive in that sense.

Berk: Well, the random rolling of the Excel spreadsheet pointed out to me that 40+ point equivalents are quite possible, and that could be unbalancing. In another game I am a player whose character has two 18s and a 14. It's practically embarrassing, seriously, though it's not a problem due to the RP-heavy nature of that game, but I'd hate to be in a more action hero game with that and be constantly upstaging other PCs.

Hmm. It occurs to me that since the point buy ends in a perfectly min-maxed character, I should be more tolerant on the upside of good 4d6 luck or give the 4d6 rollers some additional benefit...

John

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

The diversity in point buy seems to be fairly low if you use the standard 25 point buy - unless the character plans some obscure multiclassing or maybe starts at very high level, he will basically use the standard array for the best.

If you use more (28, 32 or whatever else you come up), there might be some greater chances - some people will favor a really single high ability score, some spread it out.

The biggest problem with the roll method to me is that the players are really different in power, and this can cause some problems if you try to balance encounters. (And some characters might seem to overshadow other characters...)

Mustrum Ridcully

 

[Murrdox]

I actually had a player once ask me why he couldn't just "pick" his scores - since he planned on giving his character a flawed intellect and charisma anyways. HUH???

One of my beefs with the point-buy system is that it can REALLY hurt depending on what class you're rolling up.... and this can go for a lot of classes really.

A Wizard really only needs INT. CON and DEX are distant seconds in terms of important stats.

On the flip side, consider Monks, who need WIS, DEX, STR, and CON all as primary stats.

Using a point-buy system is really easy for a Mage... doesn't make any sense for a Monk... because he NEEDS better stats than a wizard. A Monk is going to try and roll higher than the point-buy.

You could consider giving more points to different classes... but argh, that just encourages Min-Maxing... which I hate.

I make my players roll randomly... I give them 4 or 5 sets of rolls, or until they come up with a set that is playable for whatever class they are.

 

[Crothian]

I actually had a player once ask me why he couldn't just "pick" his scores - since he planned on giving his character a flawed intellect and charisma anyways. HUH???

That is the best method out there. Let the players choose their abilities and make the exact character they want. Now, of course you have to be able to trust your players not to abuse it, but I've had great success with this over the years.

 

[Celebrim]

I actually had a player once ask me why he couldn't just "pick" his scores - since he planned on giving his character a flawed intellect and charisma anyways. HUH???

*chuckle*

Who would have thought that someone would choose Int and Chr for thier dump stats? Gee.... I wonder what stats he was planning on maximizing? Do you think maybe he was motivated by something other than purely RP concerns?

I think I would have had the same responce. But, if someone had come to me and said, "I want to play a character with a 4 Con and a 8 Str, can I just pick my scores?", I might have said, "Ok, know ahead of time that magicians with hourglass eyes aren't going to be approved, but otherwise run the character concept by me and I'll tell you what I think."

 

[Epametheus]

Point buy gives players a lot more control over what exactly they want.

It's hard to make a good paladin or monk with it, but that's my only beef with the system.

 

[Gaiden]

That is the best method out there.

I completely agree. It requires a bit of maturity on the part of the players but it lets the characters fine tune there players to taste. If they enivision the brilliant Wizard that is a bit aloof and nutty - so be it.

I will always favor dice rolling over PB because PB is completely mid/max material. I don't remember who came up with this system, but i have fully adopted it and think it is by far the best (and most fun) system out there:

roll 3d6 for each score and then add in an additional amount of dice from a pool of 6, 9, or 12 d6 (depending on power level of campaign).

So let's say I want a Monk. I would assign the dice as follows (assume a 9d6 pool):

str 5d6
dex 5d6
con 4d6
int 3d6
wis 7d6
chr 3d6

Another could assign the pool differently - perhaps evenly distributed between str, dex and wis.

I found after trying it out on multpile characters that it is really cool because you have an increased chance for a high score in your most important stats but have some variability calculated into your other stats. For example, a wizard who dumps all 9d6 into int to practically ensure a score over 15 (most likely 17 or 18) could wind up with a high str and a very low dex. The important aspect of this method is no rearrangment. Another option was to roll more than 1 set and select the best. I find just rolling them once works fine and is not statistically that different than multiple rolls.