D&D 5E Point Buy vs Rolling for Stats

[Krachek]

But see, that's where I disagree right off the bat. A commoner isn't equally good/bad in every aspect of their life. Each person is a mix of stats, so to say a commoner is centered around an average of 10 is reasonably, but not all 10s. Certainly a blacksmith is stronger than most clergy, for example.

I also don't see any reason why a system can't be designed that acknowledges the world and not just the PCs. If you want the PCs to be above average, or different than the rest of the population, then you can design around that.



But a soldier might not. Perhaps the training is sufficient to warrant a higher Strength than the rest of the population. But I'm not so sure that military training as a whole reflects this. English Longbowman, sure, that was a specific type of long-term training. But your average soldier conscripted to a pike and shield wall? Probably not.

Agreed on what the DM can do when creating an NPC. My goal isn't necessarily to roll for every NPC, etc. It's more that I prefer a system that can be used for that if desired. Really, it's a matter of defining what result you want in terms of stats, and the system is designed to support that. If I know that the system is designed to average 72 points, then I can use that as a guideline for creating an NPC, and make a more average individual closer to 63, and an exceptional person 75 to 80.

A commoner is an NPC the PC dont care about. Do we have to know that the Blacksmith have 13.564 strength!
DnD is not a sim game. Population, economics, politic need only sketchy rules.

But if you choose to make a particular commoner have three 18 stat, he is no longer a "commoner".
He is rather a future hero, and the PC should sign him right away!

 

[TwoSix]

Your math is off, but don't have time right now to come up with the actual number. If 1 array is 15, 15, 8, 8, 8, 8, you don't need to have an array 15, 8, 8, 8, 8, 15 (or any other permutations).

In addition, the numbers still have to add up to whatever point buy goal you have. But I never said you had to come up with every possible permutation - 20 would probably be more than enough.

He's right about 720 if you used fixed stats...that's how many permutations there are of 15-14-13-12-10-8.

You have to do brute-force calculations if you want to know the legal number of arrays for any given point buy value; for example, for standard 27 point buy, there are only 65 legal combinations. (Or 46,800 permutations, for fixed stats.)

 

[Oofta]

How about the method I posted earlier? The one where each player has 12 cards (two of each of 4, 5, 6, 7, 8 and 9). Every single PC adds up to 78 points. Would you walk away from that? If so, why?

Out of curiosity, if I came to your game and said "I like to come up with my character concept ahead of time, so I'll use your method but I want to pick the card combination. If it matters, I won't start out with an 18 in any stat."

Would you allow it? Why or why not?

 

[gargoyleking]

I agree with the idea of overseeing dice rolls and documenting basic stat numbers. In fact, Session zero should go so far as to produce completed characters by it's end. The only thing they should need to work on in the meantime should be backstory and fluffy bits.

That said, for fun and profit, have your players roll for each stat and mark them down in order. Then build their character from that. More like the D&D of old. Might throw some of your fudgers for a but of a loop. Especially if they get bad roll in a critical stat. 6 Int or Con.

Squirrels are evil!

 

[Lanefan]

Even with 3d6, it's a little more than that. Odds of an 18 on 3d6 are 1 in 216. Since each commoner has 6 stats, the odds of having at least one 18 are 1-((215/216)^6), or 2.75%. That means about one villager out of 36 will have a natural 19 (considering humans get +1 to each stat).

D'oh! I forgot there's 6 stats, not just one... ::facepalm::

Thanks for fixing that for me.

 

[Lanefan]

As far as "many generation methods", I agree. But what they have in common is that a random roll has an effect on my character for their entire lifetime, which for me regularly stretches into years.

Either your games are lower-lethality than ours, or you play very cautiously, or you're uncommonly lucky; or some combination of these.

In addition, with most alternatives the implicit or even stated goal is that some characters will have superior ability scores compared to others in the same group. Much like point buy offends you, a system that has the goal of handicapping some characters and rewarding others based on one time random luck offends me.

::shrug::

Still think you're far more hung up on PC-vs.-PC stat differences than is warranted by experience in play.

Lanefan

 

[Lanefan]

No, by default players use 4d6. Most NPCs aren't rolled at all. Or do you think the 'Guard' in the SRD rolled 12, 11, 11, 9, 10, 9 before adding his +1 racial bonus for being human?

Less seriously, what kind of demented Lake-Wobegone 'realism' are you talking about?

I think the question is more one of if you find yourself needing to in fact roll up a commoner's stats for whatever reason, what method does the RAW want you to use?

 

[Lanefan]

I agree with the idea of overseeing dice rolls and documenting basic stat numbers. In fact, Session zero should go so far as to produce completed characters by it's end.

Not just that, but session 0 should also become session 1 as you get these newly-minted characters into the field the same night they're rolled up.

The only thing they should need to work on in the meantime should be backstory and fluffy bits.

For those that survive session 0/1, I suppose...

Lan-"it's not unheard of for a rolled-up PC to be killed before or while trying to join the party, particularly if the party thinks the new PC is in fact an enemy"-efan

 

[Oofta]

Either your games are lower-lethality than ours, or you play very cautiously, or you're uncommonly lucky; or some combination of these.
::shrug::

Maybe. The exception to the rule is any PC of mine with elven blood. They never survive beyond level 2. Doesn't matter if it's a home campaign or living/public campaign (which tend to be pretty forgiving). Other than elves though, I assume my character will survive the entire campaign until proven otherwise.

Or it could just be that we don't play with old school killer DMs. Different strokes and all.

Still think you're far more hung up on PC-vs.-PC stat differences than is warranted by experience in play.

Lanefan

As I pointed out in my very first post, stats can make a huge difference.

If we're talking a +1/-1 here and there it's not a big deal. I normally don't min-max characters, so I'm sure I could make builds that were more effective in combat on a regular basis. But if I decide to do something stupid like a strength based dwarven rogue, at least it's my choice.

 

[Tony Vargas]

I think the question is more one of if you find yourself needing to in fact roll up a commoner's stats for whatever reason, what method does the RAW want you to use?

The RAW in 5e doesn't want you to use RAW. ;P

But, the Commoner in the SRD, straight 10s. Don't think those were rolled on 4d6, either...