D&D 5E Point Buy vs Rolling for Stats

[DeJoker]

Okay first I want to state I have not read everything so if I am reiterating something I apologize.

Interestingly enough the first post sounds like a GM that actually trusts their players not to fudge the rolls. I do character rolls up all the time and sometimes you get a character that rolls real well but it does not happen as often as the posting has it sound like it seems to happen to them. My first suggestion is to have all stat rolls be preformed in front of the GM and then as a GM record those rolls in a note book and go from there I think you will find that stats are not all that overtly high from that point forward.

On the off chance your players are lucky (and not using loaded dice - saw that once) do not be concerned you have an unlimited supply of monsters if you want to make it more challenging throw in a few more monsters -- just keep in mind the game is about having fun ... are you and the players having fun ... if yes then great no problems ... if no figure out why and then try to tweak it (K.I.S.S.) so that the most folks (including yourself) are having the most fun that is possible.

Note : K.I.S.S. actually means Keep It Simple and Smart which I do not think most folks realize. Which is to say do not over complicate something if there is a simple answer for it use that answers but be smart about those simple answers -- some folks feel the simplest answer is no answer at all -- aka leave it as it is -- but that is not always the smartest answer in fact it often is not but we are creatures of the path of least resistance and sometimes change is just down right scary -- Where is my Cheese? Who moved my Cheese?

Personally I do a fixed Str, Con, Dex, Int, Wis, Cha roll of 2d6+6 if the character does not average above 13 points they can roll again once they have a set of numbers they can swap 1 set of numbers (such as Swap Str for Int) and that is the character they get to play. If they want to do a point buy my point buy system is slightly different. I am running by memory but I think it is the standard 27 points but each attribute starts at 10 and the chart looks like the following

[TABLE="class: grid, width: 100, align: center"]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]Stat
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Cost
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]8
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]-1
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]9-10
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]11
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]1
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]12
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]3
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]13
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]4
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]14
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]6
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]15
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]7
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

 

[Maxperson]

As a counter to the fact that point buy lets everyone play the character they want, that is completely meaningless, pedantic, and disingenuous.

It is, however, an excellent attitude with which to approach rolling up a character.

Point buy can't possibly allow a player to play all the types of characters that they want. You quite literally cannot start with a stat lower than 8 or above 15 before racial bonuses. Rolling on the other hand does allow all possible character types within the D&D rules. You have access to all ranges from 3-18 before racial bonuses.

One thing I like about roll-in-order, if I'm going to use random generation, at all, use random generation that's genuinely random, not re-jiggered or under-cut or second-guessed. Play what you get, figure out something interesting to do with it.

I like it that way, or with a modicum of flexibility in the ability to swap two numbers.

The approach to magic items has been stated as such. A character who gets a +1 sword is 'just better,' he's ahead of the curve. Same clearly goes for a random-roll character who ends up with a STR score 2 points better than expected (whatever 'expected' may have been), he's +1 ahead of the curve. He stays ahead of the curve until everyone has caught up to him at 20, and then he's ahead on feats (if used) or secondary characteristics...

Just better is just better.

Yes, I know. I was talking about the range of rolling. They stated that magic items were not in the math. To my knowledge they have not said the same thing about stat ranges from rolling. There's nothing to indicate that a higher than average roll is not a part of their calculation like a magic item, or that lower than average rolls are treated as anti-magic items. That's what I was wondering about.

 

[Oofta]

Point buy can't possibly allow a player to play all the types of characters that they want. You quite literally cannot start with a stat lower than 8 or above 15 before racial bonuses. Rolling on the other hand does allow all possible character types within the D&D rules. You have access to all ranges from 3-18 before racial bonuses.

It is true that point buy won't allow you to play superman, or Forest Gump for that matter. But to say you "have access" to the ranges 3-18 is also disingenuous. You don't have access to any numbers at all. You are handed the numbers that luck gives you.

If that's what floats your boat, great. We shouldn't have to get a lawyer to construct the proper legalize to say that "with point buy I can build a character within known constraints of the game system to the vision that most closely fits my desired ...."

Well, you get the idea. I should correct that. You won't get the idea. You will never accept that for me, point buy lets me build a character whose attributes roughly match what I want. Because I accept that all games have constraints.

You prefer rolling. I prefer point buy. That's all.

 

[Maxperson]

It is true that point buy won't allow you to play superman, or Forest Gump for that matter. But to say you "have access" to the ranges 3-18 is also disingenuous. You don't have access to any numbers at all. You are handed the numbers that luck gives you.

It's not disingenuous at all. I have played every number from 3-18 multiple times. I had access to every last one of them, and I'll have access to 6 numbers the next time I roll a character. The odds are that one will be higher or lower than point buy or arrays can ever give me. I have access to more and more interesting numbers than you do.

Well, you get the idea. I should correct that. You won't get the idea. You will never accept that for me, point buy lets me build a character whose attributes roughly match what I want. Because I accept that all games have constraints.

No, I get it. You're happy with and desire middling PCs without high and low numbers. I prefer more interesting numbers like 6's and 16's.

You prefer rolling. I prefer point buy. That's all.

Well, yes and no. We each prefer our own methods, but that isn't all. There are all the reasons that go along with those preferences.

 

[Hussar]

No, I get it. You're happy with and desire middling PCs without high and low numbers. I prefer more interesting numbers like 6's and 16's.

Yet, you will never play a character with lower total value than point buy. You call point buy "middling". IOW, you want to power game your way through chargen to make sure you have those all important 18's and the dump stats.

Good to see the honesty shining through.

 

[DeJoker]

Seriously who cares -- Point buy versus random rolling -- its all about preference and that has no basis in fact its pure opinion and that cannot be argued because ones opinion for themselves is never wrong and vice versa

 

[FlyingChihuahua]

Seriously who cares -- Point buy versus random rolling -- its all about preference and that has no basis in fact its pure opinion and that cannot be argued because ones opinion for themselves is never wrong and vice versa

Clearly you have never been on the internet before.

 

[FrogReaver]

Just out of curiosity.
1. Does anyone ever play a point buy or array character with less than 14 post racial in their primary stat?
2.When you play with point buy or array do you nearly always put a 16 post racial in your primary stat?
3. When you play with point buy or array character how often do you place your 2nd highest stat into either con or whatever other stat you need to help your AC?
4. When you play with point buy, how often do you totally dump a stat to an 8 or 9?

What about those that roll.
1. Do you really ever play less than a 14 post racial in your primary stat?
2. Do you typically always play with 16+ in your primary stat?
3. Do you almost always play place your 2nd highest stat either in con or whatever stat you need to help with ac?
4. How often do you play with 9 or below in at least 1 stat?

I'm betting that both point buyers and rollers answer almost all these questions the same. I bet rollers answer question 3 a bit differently. I bet that they are far more likely to use their 2nd highest stat on something that doesn't directly increase their combat effectiveness.

 

[Arial Black]

[MENTION=6799649]No disrespect, but what are you even arguing about? That my opinion on what "build to my character vision" means is wrong? That you enjoy variability? We stated our opinions 50+ pages ago. Why keep harping on it?

Apologies for not going through your post

Well, if you want your question answered, it's in the post you didn't read!

...but I haven't had enough caffeine and I may be offline off and on for the next week or so.

Enjoy your week.

 

[Maxperson]

Yet, you will never play a character with lower total value than point buy. You call point buy "middling". IOW, you want to power game your way through chargen to make sure you have those all important 18's and the dump stats.

First, I have in the past and will in the future play characters with values lower than point buy. Second, I don't have dump stats. I play for the concepts, not the mechanics, so there's no such thing as a dump stat for me.

Good to see the honesty shining through.

How would you know? I have yet to see you actually respond to what I or someone else here is actually saying.