D&D 5E Point Buy vs Rolling for Stats

[Maxperson]

I'll grant Oofta tossed out 'to each his own' at the end, but I'm hear'n the 1TW from both of you, there...

I'm not saying there's one true way to play the game, but I see the word hero used waaaaaaay too often and inappropriately.

Newscaster: "He picked up the toddler walking by himself and took him into the store. He's a hero!"

People: "Everyone in the armed forces is a hero!"

And so on.

A hero is a hero because they were at serious risk and acted anyway. If there's not a serious risk, there's really not heroism going on. There was no risk going on with the toddler. Was he a good guy? Yep, but not a hero. The same with people who joined the armed forces and don't go to war. The guy dropping drones on people from the middle of Nebraska isn't a hero.

 

[Oofta]

Not by me you haven't, so there was no cause for to throw "one true way" into my teeth the way you did. I just tossed it back at you in a humorous manner is all.

So ...

It is your bad. It's extremely bad of you to think that there is one true way to play D&D. Give up on that idea and it won't bug you so much that you don't know it. Set yourself free!

Sure seems like a slam.

It may not have been meant that way, and I get it. Tone and intent doesn't always carry.

End of the day we simply have different preferences. I don't see any benefits and only negatives to rolling (that could not be easily duplicated with point buy or arrays). For the umpteenth time, that doesn't mean you're doing it wrong because you use an option I would not.

 

[Maxperson]

End of the day we simply have different preferences. I don't see any benefits and only negatives to rolling (that could not be easily duplicated with point buy or arrays). For the umpteenth time, that doesn't mean you're doing it wrong because you use an option I would not.

Realism and lack of control(full or partial) are benefits that you can't get through point buy or arrays, but they are benefits that might seem like negatives to some.

 

[Tony Vargas]

Realism and lack of control(full or partial) are benefits that you can't get through point buy or arrays, but they are benefits that might seem like negatives to some.

Sure. 'Realism' is contrary to genre - not just in the indisputable magic-isn't-real sense, either - protagonists tend to be a /lot/ better than the average in genre (and rolling anything other than 3d6 in order acknowledges that, actually). Lack of control over the what character you end up playing undermines player agency.

I don't see any benefits and only negatives to rolling (that could not be easily duplicated with point buy or arrays).

The difference is in the subtle distinction between fairness & balance. Rolling reduces balance, while still being fair.

 

[Oofta]

Realism and lack of control(full or partial) are benefits that you can't get through point buy or arrays, but they are benefits that might seem like negatives to some.

I get that people like playing flawed characters. I know I do, it gives me something to hang my hat on when I'm roleplaying.

I'd just rather have the option to decide what that flaw is. And ... in some cases rolled characters are too good.

 

[Oofta]

The difference is in the subtle distinction between fairness & balance. Rolling avoids balance, while still being fair.

I value fairness on results. Random results are not fair.

Do you really think it would be fair if your salary for a new job was based on a die roll? If you got $3.00/hour and another person with same qualifications and history doing the same job was getting $18.00/hour?

 

[Tony Vargas]

I value fairness on results. Random results are not fair.

Results are not fair or unfair, how the result was achieved would be. Random results using unbiased methods are fair. That's why we call a die that consistently delivers a linear distribution a 'fair' die.

Like I alluded to earlier, it's 'fair' in the sense that drawing lots in The Crucible was fair. Everyone has the same chance of being stoned to death. Doesn't imply that stoning someone to death each year is a good idea.

I get that people like playing flawed characters. I know I do, it gives me something to hang my hat on when I'm roleplaying.

I'd just rather have the option to decide what that flaw is. And ... in some cases rolled characters are too good.

Sure, and if you like playing flawed characters it'd be nice to use a system that didn't randomly hand you someone with a low stat of 12. Or even one that (gasp) let you pick some sort of flaw, like a 'Disadvantage' or something, that was recognized & modeled within the system.

 

[Maxperson]

I get that people like playing flawed characters. I know I do, it gives me something to hang my hat on when I'm roleplaying.

It's not even flawed. It's realistic or uncontrolled(partially of fully). That can result in a flawed character, or one with no flaws, at least with regard to stats. I find it fun to play what I get, though as you pointed out earlier, there are ways to modify that so that horrible stats can't happen.

One group I play with uses a minimum of 76 points rolled. So an average of 13, 13, 13, 13, 12, 12. We don't get to keep re-rolling until we get there, though. Suppose I roll 16, 12 7, 12, 14, 13. That's 74 points. At that point I would roll 1d6 twice and add one to the stat rolled, so if I ended up with a 1 and 5, the 16 would go to 17 and the 14 to a 15.

How I run my games is with that minimum, but instead of 4d6-lowest on all 6 stats, you get 3d6 for 2, 4d6-lowest for 2, and 5d6-two lowest for two and you can swap any pair. It gives a bit more control, while still maintaining enough random to be unpredictable.

I'd just rather have the option to decide what that flaw is. And ... in some cases rolled characters are too good.

I get it, but it's just not for me.

 

[Maxperson]

Sure. 'Realism' is contrary to genre - not just in the indisputable magic-isn't-real sense, either - protagonists tend to be a /lot/ better than the average in genre (and rolling anything other than 3d6 in order acknowledges that, actually). Lack of control over the what character you end up playing undermines player agency.

I disagree. The game is rife with realism. Swords have edges. Spears are pointed and can be thrown. Humans breath, eat and swim. And on and on. Realism doesn't have to mirror reality in order to be realism. It's more of a sliding scale and I like a bit more than the game gives me by default.

As for for player agency, rolling doesn't undermine it at all, or if it does, so do arrays and point buy. True player agency would be just picking whatever stats you want and any limitation whatsoever would undermine that. If rolling is how the game is played, then rolled stats become part of framework for player agency in that game.

 

[Oofta]

It's not even flawed. It's realistic or uncontrolled(partially of fully). That can result in a flawed character, or one with no flaws, at least with regard to stats. I find it fun to play what I get, though as you pointed out earlier, there are ways to modify that so that horrible stats can't happen.

One group I play with uses a minimum of 76 points rolled. So an average of 13, 13, 13, 13, 12, 12. We don't get to keep re-rolling until we get there, though. Suppose I roll 16, 12 7, 12, 14, 13. That's 74 points. At that point I would roll 1d6 twice and add one to the stat rolled, so if I ended up with a 1 and 5, the 16 would go to 17 and the 14 to a 15.

How I run my games is with that minimum, but instead of 4d6-lowest on all 6 stats, you get 3d6 for 2, 4d6-lowest for 2, and 5d6-two lowest for two and you can swap any pair. It gives a bit more control, while still maintaining enough random to be unpredictable.

I get it, but it's just not for me.

I get tired of saying this so just a blanket caveat from now on: what you do is OK for you.

If I wanted random, but fair results I could just roll for which stat array I used and then (if I really wanted random) roll for which number went to which ability. Would that not satisfy the whole "I want random stats"?

It seems like any system that allows for assignment of numbers to abilities is going to end up with similar results - your high numbers will go into abilities you value for your build while low numbers will go to abilities you don't value.

Unless of course all numbers are all the same (which is statistically unlikely with most methods).