D&D 5E Point Buy vs Rolling for Stats

[S'mon]

1. Obviously rolled stats requires they be rolled in front of the GM. Some people may not cheat even knowing that the vast majority will, but it's just unfair on them. So always roll in front of GM.

2. For balanced play in 3e-5e I find the only thing that works is "roll in order" and allow a full reroll if really bad. Roll then arrange is just variable point buy, not a good idea.

 

[Oofta]

It's a bit more than just determining a modifier within a +/- 5 range. It's also a way of mechanically differentiating between them and of backing up the narration.

If the DM narrates that the town blacksmith is a bit dim-witted but strong as an ox and for some reason people find him unusually persuasive, that gives a good thumbnail overview of the guy. But there's no frame of reference to place this in - does she mean Str 15, Int 6 and Cha 13 or does she mean Str 18, Int 9 and Cha 16 - and no comparison with the known PCs. I'm not at all saying the DM should rattle off the numbers as part of the narration - ye gods, no! - but that the numbers need to be there to back up the narration. And here's why:

Players come to develop ideas in their own minds of what each stat number might represent. Those ideas may vary from player to player, but that's not the point here. The point is that after a little experience playing the game each player is going to come to an idea of what Charisma 15 - as opposed to 12 or 10 or 7 - represents in his/her imagination. The DM, meanwhile, is also going to have her own ideas.

Where numbers come in handy is to tie these ideas together. Narrating that the blacksmith is uncommonly persuasive given his lack of intelligence might be the DM trying to narrate what she sees as Cha 15 while one player interprets it as Cha 12 and another as Cha 17; and this may well affect their decision as to whether or not to try persuading him to do them a favour. A player might ask "do I think he's more persuasive than Ballad and if yes, by how much?"* and the answer to this - which suddenly forces the blacksmith into a Cha score - puts the blacksmith's Charisma into terms both the DM and players can agree on.

* - the party's Cha 14 Bard

Lan-"strong like mountain - tough like mountain - smart like mountain"-efan

So? The DM may envision the blacksmith as having black hair, some players may envision him as blonde, others as bald. Unless it's important to the game it doesn't make a difference.

As far as being "more persuasive", do your players have a secret cheat code? Some way of making floating green numbers hover next to his head? How the heck would they know specific values unless it is only a game to you. In real life you can only determine such things on a broad scale and it may require a great deal of interaction. Most people would not have though of Hitler as being persuasive just passing him on the street.

Unless and until there is a contest of some kind how would the specific number be relevant? Why would it matter what the PCs thought? If there is a contest both sides may roll a D20 and at that point they add a +/- modifier to the roll based on the relevant score. How the DM comes up with the modifier is up to the DM.

I think it's much like quantum mechanics. Until you measure something it's actual value is indeterminate. If you want to determine ability scores for you entire world's population (what about bunnies? do different bunnies have different stats?) More power to you. As the DMG states, hard numbers are not relevant until you need them. You only need them when you pick up a die to resolve something that has an uncertain outcome.

 

[Tony Vargas]

However you get them, it does take less skill to play a character with higher stats.

OK, then.

I also disagree that it takes more DM reading/gaming. Primarily, it takes better planning and strategy.

The DM is the world, the planning & strategy that works is the planning & strategy you convince the DM will work. The planning & strategy and 'skilled play' and system mastery that work off the mechanics rather than the DM's judgement are dependent on the numbers, and bad numbers hurt relative to good, regardless, in that case.

So, yeah, if one player rolls high and another low, there's an imbalance there, a potentially severe one - and, yes, if the player with bad stats can bring his A game(ing the DM) to the table, he can make it up. And if the other guy does so better, he's just further behind...

When you have higher stats(more hit points, better AC and saves, etc.), you can be more reckless and survive. Lower stat characters have to be more careful and plan better.

Rather the opposite, really. If your stats suck, you can be reckless, and, if you survive, might accumulate enough character-changing rewards to make it up - and if you don't, you re-roll. If you have great stats, you want to preserve that exceptional character, so you play more cautiously, pay more attention, and plan better...

...but, you're more likely to count on the results of that, on having a big fat bonus, and angling to get to make the right check, rather than knowing that checks are to be avoided, and you have to angle to avoid them and persuade the DM to narrate success for your actions as much as possible...

Stepping back a bit but, it appears to me that this is fundamentally just a riff on the whole rules as physics debate. Do the mechanics model the in-game reality or are they simply tools we use to resolve events? Personally, I favor the latter rather strongly. Mostly because when you try to extrapolate game mechanics into the larger world, all sorts of bizarre discrepancies crop up (10% of your population being physically or mentally challenged as an example from this thread).

Nod. It's all on the 'random generation is more realistic' side of the ledger. (And, IMHO, only as valid as the generation system is outside of player control - more valid with random-in-order than random-and-arrange, more valid if players choose class but not race & certain backgrounds, etc...)

 

[Satyrn]

What's your Intelligence score?

157.

It's not bragging. You asked.

 

[Oofta]

157.

It's not bragging. You asked.

That's an IQ score, not an Intelligence Ability score. There's presumably a correlation between the two, but they are not the same thing.

 

[Hussar]

No, you misunderstand [MENTION=6801845]Oofta[/MENTION]. Satyrn really IS that smart. Bloody handsome too.

 

[Oofta]

No, you misunderstand [MENTION=6801845]Oofta[/MENTION]. Satyrn really IS that smart. Bloody handsome too.

Not to mention modest to boot.

 

[Satyrn]

No, you misunderstand [MENTION=6801845]Oofta[/MENTION]. Satyrn really IS that smart. Bloody handsome too.

My Charisma Comeliness is a whopping 174.

 

[Satyrn]

That's an IQ score, not an Intelligence Ability score.

 

[Oofta]

View attachment 90608

Looks like somebody may have made sense of humor their dump stat.

Although come to think of it, it may have been me.