Point buy

[DerHauptman]

Point buy? Level playing field? HUH?

Cool, just like real life...we all get to start the game with the same amount of gifts. I guess I got cheated somewhere. Either that or my DM just liked low point buy and I had to choose to specialize.

IMO rolling is the only way to play D&D.

It simulates, which is what the game is to me BTW, the fact that life is cruel and unfair. That sometimes I will be out there in it with a Bill Gates or someone like the Rock.

I don't have the smarts of one nor the physical ability of he other but I am doing OK in life regardless.

 

[FreeTheSlaves]

rolling ... simulates, which is what the game is to me BTW, the fact that life is cruel and unfair.

And some people enjoy our escapism that lets us leave all the inequality behind us. Which is why I'd like to see some official 'dice rolling system' to 'point buy equivalency' convertor - and make it the backbone of the future. I mean, currently the implied system is do either/or, and no compromise. I think it would nullify an issue that really can divide gamers.

 

[Elf Witch]

Seems to me the monk is at fault for the latter example



No, you only thought you were at the latter. Having a high Charisma has nothing to do with leadership. In the core rules, there's no rules for simulating leadership. Basically, your character might talk nice, and he won't even be that good at that because Diplomacy isn't a class skill for him.

IMO, if there was a leadership class, you would have to spread your stats appropriately. Take a decent Charisma (but you won't be Stonewall Jackson or Rasputin) and take decent physical stats (you won't fight as well as Conan) but you end up with a good combination of abilities. If you're trying to kick as much butt as Conan and be a good leader (with a good leadership class), you're going for a character that's more powerful than DnD standard.



That's a +4 difference regardless of whether you have a magic item or not. If you used point buy, you can at least assign the stats the way you want.

These were the stats I rolled 17, 10, 13, 16, 12, 16 I put them in Str 18 Dex 10 Con 13 INt 16 WiS 12 CHR 16 since I came in at 10 I had two stats raises so I raised STR to 18 and CON to 14

To me someone with leadership has skills like diplomacy and sense motive and lets not forget that the feat leadership is based on CHR.

There is a feat in Kalamar that allows you make cross class skills class skills based on your INT modifier. I took that and since I had an INT of 16 I choose diplomacy, sense motive and Know royalty. Being human I had 6 skill points every level so I was able to make a fighter who was smart and skilled. I put my skill points in Dplomacy, Sense Motive, Know Royalty and Intimadate. With the Courtier class from Rokugan you get synergy bonuses to charisma bases skills when used in a social setting so my character was very good at diplomacy and adequate at things like gather info

my CHR was a 16 which gave me a +3 to any skills with CHR modifiers like diplomacy, Intimadate.

With a STR of 18 I was a kick butt fighter. With cleave, greater cleave, power attack, Improved Crit I used a falchion she was all about just laying the smack down in melee.


Yes this character could have been built as 28 point buy but I don't think it would been quite as much fun to play. It was fun playing a character who could kick butt as good as any fighter and yet have something to do outside of combat in a role play heavy game.


As for the monk being a desigh flaw this may be true but it does not change the fact that right now a 28 point buy makes a piss poor monk.

 

[Psion]

Roll or an enhanced array (11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16).

 

[prosfilaes]

Point buy? Level playing field? HUH?

Cool, just like real life...we all get to start the game with the same amount of gifts. I guess I got cheated somewhere. Either that or my DM just liked low point buy and I had to choose to specialize.

If you're concerned about that, the first thing I'd throw out is level adjustment. In "real life" an ogre shouldn't be anywhere near on a level playing field with a pitiful human. 3d6, roll once for each stat, is much more realistic than any of this 4d6, reroll ones, place where you want them, type stuff; however, in real "real life", there's a lot more people with several threes than several eighteens, since dropping stats is much easier and much more common than raising them. Why is all this pushed aside for "but with dice rolling, I have a chance to roll up Superman!"?

 

[prosfilaes]

Yes this character could have been built as 28 point buy but I don't think it would been quite as much fun to play. It was fun playing a character who could kick butt as good as any fighter and yet have something to do outside of combat in a role play heavy game.

But it's a lot less fun to play a character who has to sit by while you do everything he can do, but more.

 

[genshou]

If you're concerned about that, the first thing I'd throw out is level adjustment. In "real life" an ogre shouldn't be anywhere near on a level playing field with a pitiful human. 3d6, roll once for each stat, is much more realistic than any of this 4d6, reroll ones, place where you want them, type stuff; however, in real "real life", there's a lot more people with several threes than several eighteens, since dropping stats is much easier and much more common than raising them. Why is all this pushed aside for "but with dice rolling, I have a chance to roll up Superman!"?

Probably because D&D isn't about being the sickly peasant who can barely lift a sickle and has to rely on a daily poultice just to survive due to a chronic illness? :\

 

[prosfilaes]

Probably because D&D isn't about being the sickly peasant who can barely lift a sickle and has to rely on a daily poultice just to survive due to a chronic illness? :\

If you don't want to play a realistic character, then how does rolling stats help realism?

 

[Elf Witch]

But it's a lot less fun to play a character who has to sit by while you do everything he can do, but more.

Well that would be true if other players sat around and did nothing. Let's see there was the druid with the tiger companion and the ability to cast in wild shape and the wizard who was untouchable because of his choice of spells and who yeah the paladin/cleric who had higher stats than I did and they all had the ability to cast magic in a low magic game.

Yeah there were times I was overshadowed and not able to keep up because I had no magic.

This is such a whine that I only hear on this board oh your stats are better so I can't have a good character. I have played in a game where I was the only character with stats in the 20s everyone else had stats much higher yet my character which I played for three years ended up being the driving force behind the campaign.

Maybe this works for us because we understand that the game is supposed to a cooperative game so we don't have characters that step on other character feet. Sure my fighter was smart and a leader but the paladin was the face he was accepted everywhere because of his paladinhood my knight on the other hand was not because she was a member of the royal family of Kalamar and some of the countries we traveled in were at war with Kalamar.

Neither the player playing the paladin who also took the leadership feat or myself ever felt like we were in competion with each other we worked together to meet the party goals.

None of us would ever make a character that took something away from someone else's character so for us it is not about how high someone else's stats are. We have good DMs who make sure everyone gets a chance in the spotlight.

We are aslo role players and character backgrounds and role playing are just as important to us as mechincal aspects of the game.

Maybe this is why a range of stats has never been an issue in our games.

 

[Psion]

If you don't want to play a realistic character, then how does rolling stats help realism?

That's a false dichotomy.

Just because I don't want all characters to be cut from the SAME cloth does not mean I don't want all characters to be heroic.