Points of Light and the Forgotten Realms

[William Ronald]

This page on the Espruar font shows that there is no C in Espruar, so it looks like the Casin Cu Calas could easily be spelled in Common script with either the Thorass equivalent of C or K. (if you have the FRCS book, note that c is crossed out in the Espruar script.) So, an elf who would somehow know the English Alphabet might write the Casin Cu Calas as the Kasin Ku Kalas. (Oy vey, do these bad guys need to go down hard!)

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

My misinterpreting comment was aimed at many on this thread, but even if you've played since 1989, your still misinterpreting the Realms if you believe Elminster, Khelben etc are a problem in the Realms. I assume you have read the 'Concerns of the Mighty' sidebar, page 84 in the FRCS?

Infact, read this post over at the WoTC boards, that explains the situation quite perfectly. I'll not quote it, as it's huge.

If Mystra's Chosen are a "problem" for your Forgotten Realms..

Yeeeeeah, no.

When you're adventuring in Shadowdale, and something's going down, telling the players when they ask that Elminster is out of town again sounds like (and is) crap after the second or third time it happens.

The notion that Elminster, or whomever, can't be bothered to step in and solve a lot of these problems is even worse, and directly contradicts the published alignments for the characters.

If you were playing in Metropolis, instead of the Forgotten Realms, it wouldn't be out of line to ask why Superman never seems to ever have time to step in. It doesn't get any less dumb when it's Elminster.

 

[Mkhaiwati]

beer and gaming

To me, this sounds like American Beer (I hope you like it!)

After Prohibition and WWII, the few remaining beer manufacturers marketed beer also for women, and they all tried to come up with the most likable beer they could to appeal to the widest audience. Which means they all began to taste the same after a while. American beer is a product of marketing. By making the Realms more "point-of-light"-ish, they have succeeded in making it less unique, and more like Midnight or some other setting. Enjoy the American beer.

The first thing I thought of with CCC was the Civilian Conservation Corps. I go fishing at a hatchery and dam they made in the 1930's.

If 4e is set 10 years in advance, and this chapter by Salvatore is for real in the sign of things to come, how will any party be able to affect the Realms if the future is already set in stone? For those who are applauding the possible removal of icons and giving more power to the players, how much power is there really when the future is decided? If you can ignore the future, why can't you ignore the icons or any other books you don't agree with for your campaign?

 

[Sunderstone]

Yeeeeeah, no.

When you're adventuring in Shadowdale, and something's going down, telling the players when they ask that Elminster is out of town again sounds like (and is) crap after the second or third time it happens.

The notion that Elminster, or whomever, can't be bothered to step in and solve a lot of these problems is even worse, and directly contradicts the published alignments for the characters.

If you were playing in Metropolis, instead of the Forgotten Realms, it wouldn't be out of line to ask why Superman never seems to ever have time to step in. It doesn't get any less dumb when it's Elminster.

omg! we agree on something

check my post (#101).

I agree that the Realms needs the uber-scale reboot.
Get rid of all those super powered NPCs (or 90% of them would suffice).

I think the main question we should be asking is...
Will WotC repeat the past mistakes and allow every novel to alter canon after this overhaul?

If thats the case, the reboot will be a waste of time.


Late Edit*** If WotC doesnt allow all the novels to change canon all over again, the FR news might be enough for me to take a closer look at 4E in general. As a fan since the grey box, I miss FR.

 

[Green Knight]

If 4e is set 10 years in advance, and this chapter by Salvatore is for real in the sign of things to come, how will any party be able to affect the Realms if the future is already set in stone? For those who are applauding the possible removal of icons and giving more power to the players, how much power is there really when the future is decided? If you can ignore the future, why can't you ignore the icons or any other books you don't agree with for your campaign?

What makes you think the timeline will be set 10 years in the future? It's much more likely that it'll be 100 years, at the same point that the events in that sample chapter occur. So no, the future won't be written in stone, as the PC's will be active in the present, not the past.

 

[Irda Ranger]

Just in case any WotC employees who have any say over the novel-writing process are reading this, I have a request to make:

No more RSE's.

Really. This isn't a world like Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time books where we're all just passive readers. This is a published game setting where we (the players & DM's) are supposed to be writing the stories. It's very dis-empowering to read a novel and find that now your city / nation / religion / species no longer exists.

That is not to say "No more novels." Please, feel free to write / have written more novels. BUT, make sure they take place in the Realms without re-writing the Realms. Tell the story on how Fighter Bob and his Merry Band fought off an Orc invasion, or stormed a forgotten Keep in the Lost Hills.

Frankly, the original Icewind Dale trilogy, and the first Exhile trilogy from RAS were pretty good in this regard. They told Drizzts' (and his companions') story without totally farking up the status quo set forth in the campaign setting. The status quo was preserved, rather than altered.

I think this is a good model moving forward. Your new POL framework will actually help in this regard, as most adventures will be about preserving civilization from various onslaughts, and thus keeping a 1457 DR setting "about the same" from year to year.

That way we can both read the Realms and adventure in the Realms, without the former making a mockery of the latter.

Thanks.

 

[Mkhaiwati]

What makes you think the timeline will be set 10 years in the future? It's much more likely that it'll be 100 years, at the same point that the events in that sample chapter occur. So no, the future won't be written in stone, as the PC's will be active in the present, not the past.

I said "if" because the inital report on the 4e Realms was that there will be a 10 year jump in the timeline. The problem with Salvatore's chapter is that it is set 100 years ahead, but the promo for the book says it picks up where the last Drizzt book left off. With Cattie-brie and Wulfgar and Bruenor alive. Since his books have Drizzt writing from a future perspective, we just don't know what is happening here.

If the jump is 10 years, the future is written. If 100 years, it is as you say. We just don't know yet.

 

[ruleslawyer]

Rather than get into this further, I'll just say that I agree with Ruin Explorer, both at a high conceptual level and with respect to many fine grain details.

Particularly with respect to Khelben. Few things would please me more than defeating the Lich of Overmountain and playing soccer with his skull.

Oy. This makes me sad (both with respect to the general and the specific points). Such implications for the campaign...

 

[Irda Ranger]

Oy. This makes me sad (both with respect to the general and the specific points). Such implications for the campaign...

There's quite a bit of difference between your campaign and the way WotC would treat said campaign, if you let them. Did you read Uzzy's spoiler above?

Really, the Khelben example was just working with the material I was given. It was a specific case for "I'd like to hurt TSR/WotC the way they've hurt me by doing what they've done to Dragonlance, Dark Sun and my beloved Grey Box FR." Not so much a comment on Khelben, who I must say is one of the more interesting and least annoying of "Mystra's chosen."

Petty. Childish even. But Ruin Explorer got me excited with the possibility of plating in an FR where our PC's are the heroes, not Ed Greenwood's group.

You know, like in your campaign.

Not that it'll happen. WotC wouldn't bare to give up control like that.

 

[grimslade]

As much as it pains me to say it:
The Forgotten Realms Novels eclipse the sales of the FR RPG materials by a lot. The novels will continue to set the canon for the realms. The Uber-NPCs will still exist as long as they sell. RSE's sell books, therefore RSE's will continue to happen. Do not put the cart before the horse. The Grey box realms were fantastic. It is our fault that we bought Douglas Nile's Dark Walker on Moonshae that started this whole she-bang. Sure, Dragonlance set the precedent but that's just a quibble.