Points of Light and the Forgotten Realms

[Selvarin]

Hmmm.....

It's most definitely pure speculation.

But if the cities of the North were depopulated it certainly isn't the first time.

On the plus side, think of it this way. If there is a 100-year jump then it safely allows current gamers to do what they want without..and be independent of the official timeline. It's a cushion, and from the novelist's standpoint it allows the writer (Salvatore) to be a little more unfettered. He's one of the few FR authors who can write about something so sweeping in the Realms without me cringing. Dwarf names are another matter. I'm still waiting for him to name a dwarven character Hizzy Dizzy Fuzzydump. Or Fizzledoof Fhartwhomp.

 

[Selvarin]

And by the way...

...I was reading this on the Wizards' site relating to The Orc King book:

"An uneasy peace between the dwarves of Mithral Hall and the orcs of the newly established Kingdom of Many-Arrows can't last long. The orc tribes united under Obould begin to fight each other, and Bruenor is determined to finish the war that nearly killed him and almost destroyed everything he's worked to build. But it will take more than swords and axes to bring a lasting peace to the Spine of the World. Powerful individuals on both sides may have to change the way they see each other. They may have to start to talk. But it won't be easy."

Combining this with what's been previously mentioned, it sounds like Drizzt is talking about what happened then, almost like we're reading his memoir. It doesn't establish that the timeline will be changed so radically. So Drizzt may be a century ahead, not necessarily the Realms.

The book will be out in September, guess we'll know then.

 

[Athenon]

Future Realms

A friend and I talked at length about the potential timeline fast-forward. A couple points:

- The mention of an "Empire of Netheril" I can't imagine R.A. Salvatore throwing something like that in just because the mood struck him. He's generally gone far out of his way to avoid mixing in politics of anywhere else in the Realms. I would think that if (as was hinted at Gen Con) the major players in the Realms got together a couple years ago to discuss the 4E changes, Salvatore was either involved or informed of what was coming. Hopefully this is WotC learning from the Silver Marches/Hunter's Blades inconsistencies.

- Naming the next Trilogy "Transitions" This also seems rather deliberate for an R.A. Salvatore book series. While I suspect that someone else came up with that title for the trilogy, I bet the thrust of the series is transitioning the Realms toward the future and 4E changes.

- Cleaning up the 3E novel mess I'll freely admit that I have done a poor job of keeping up with the Realms novels in the last ten years. This is partially the reality of being a "grown-up" and having a busy work schedule. But it's also a lack of interest in many of the novels that have come out. There certainly have been some great novels that have come out in the last decade, but there have been many that did not entice me to read. I suspect I'm not alone in this. A big jump forward in the timeline makes the relevance of these stories and mini-Realms Shaking Events much smaller. At any rate they can be summarized in the Grand History that will come out next month.

- A Different kind of RSE There has been nothing as big as the Time of Troubles in the Realms for years in real time, but I've noticed that the changes that have happened since then have made it harder to run campaigns in the Realms. The retaking of Myth Drannor, large scale war between Cormyr/Evereska/Waterdeep and Shade, the death of Blackstaff and the wars going on in Sembia all make the core areas of the Realms difficult to use in-game even if you are up to date on the Realms novels. Further, they're hard to predict even if you've read the books since these trilogy cycles can go on for a few years in real time. A massive calendar reset gets past all these big local changes. Even though this may be the biggest RSE of all time, it may actually make it easier to run a campaign in the Forgotten Realms.

- A potentially exciting relaunch of a great setting While I have no idea exactly what the WotC folks will do with FR 4.0, I suspect they will advance the timeline well past the Year of Blue Fire. As was mentioned above, the WotC designers were very sly at Gen Con. They never actually said that the 4E timeline would be reset to 1385. They said that a big change would happen in the Realms and that it would be called the Spell Plague. They also said that the Spell Plague would happen/begin in the Year of Blue Fire.

I've been a huge fan of the Realms for years. I love the classic setting. I also realize that I currently own enough material to run there for the rest of my life. If anyone doesn't like the changes that WotC likely has in store, it's not like you'll be left wanting for mid 1300's FR lore. But this sure could be a chance to represent the setting in a way that will make this classic feel fresh. I really hope the designers deliver on this.

​

We shall see...

Will Maranto

 

[mmaranda]

I think it was also done to facilitate organized play in the FR world. If you want to run and RPGA campaign there (and WotC does) then it needs to be accessible to people who have read every book and people who have read none of them. Although I'm a little saddened that this could bring about major changes that disrupt other people campaigns, I've never read the books just the main source book. I've played games in the realms and been oblivious to a lot of the DMs attempts at showing the subtly of politics there because I didn't know how people were interconnected.

So in the end I think it will be helpful to new entrants and if the authors do there work right not be too jarring to the players that have invest years in this world.

I think it will also help explain why the realms has changed in terms of its magic structure (see end of major Vancian magic trend) and other features in the game.

 

[BlackMoria]

'Points of Light' is a setting philosphy, not a game mechanic. Nowhere have I seen that 'Points of Light' is a requirement of 4E.

I don't get the why for a 'reboot' of the Realms. It can't be just to re-image the FR to conform to their paradigm for their default setting, because if it is the intent, then expect some Mournland on steriods calamity to hit Ebberon the following year to re-image to a 'points of light' paradigm.

As for changes to better support the RPGA - I hope not. Living campaigns are favor of the month things - they come and go with regularity and I think it is bad decision making to mess with a campaign setting in a major way for the sake of running a Living campaign for a few years and then on to another Living campaign.

No, there is more to this than meets the eye and no doubt the Orc King is giving us a tiny glimpse of one piece of the picture puzzle and we are all guessing what the picture is from that one glimpse.

Realms fans should not jump off the cliff just yet.

 

[ChaosShard]

Actually, we don't know where Drizzt has traveled in the time between the end of The Orc King and the Epilogue.

***Spoilers for Unclean by Richard Byers also contained here, starting in the second block of text.***

He may not have strayed too far east or south of the Silver Marches, especially if Netheril returned (let's assume that Netheril is somewhat hostile and has outriders patrolling a wide area outside their recognized borders, that may have kept him away from the Cormyr/Sembia/Dalelands region). Or, more simply, Salvatore didn't mention them because he was told not to/wasn't given any idea what condition they were in.

Thay is in play here also, since by the end of Unclean, Szass Tam has plunged the nation into a full-blown civil war, with him and several tharchions on one side and the other zulkirs and two tharchions opposing him. If he loses and survives (it's book 1 of 3, book 2 comes out in spring and book 3 in '09), Szass may re-found/restore/ally with the newly risen Netheril, if for no other reason than to survive the wrath of his former compatriots. With the ending of the book, however, Szass seems to have the upper hand, if only marginally.

But, let's do a little speculating on the Dales, while we're here...

Myth Drannor is restored, two Chosen live there (but only Old El' is safe from the chopping block). The Elves may or may not protect/ally with them, depending on relations and/or what they have going on in Cormanthor. My completely uninformed guess is that the Dales survive, but are more harried than before. Based on that assumption the Dales/Moonsea area might be the default "Points of Light" area for PCs to start in, perhaps with other themes in the different regions.

Just a guess, but hey, we'll find it all out in a year...

Any thoughts?

Am I completely mad?

Edited 1st line to add "Actually" because it reads better

 

[Jack99]

Hmm...

You know, speaking for myself only... This might be what it takes to get me into FR. I'm familiar with the basics of the setting, but not many of the details. And I've never written for it because, among other things, the notion of trying to catch up on all this history is daunting, to say the least.

But a major shake-up to go along with a jump forward in time might be enough to draw me in.

Now, I'm not saying that's the best way to go. I know FR has a lot of fans as it stands now, and I don't begrudge them that. If FR doesn't change to suit my tastes, well, there are plenty of settings that do. I'm just saying that if it happened this way (and I'm still not convinced it will), it'd be a good thing for me.

I agree. In 2e I was a hardcore Realms freak, owning everything published from the setting, and running most of my campaigns in FR, but in 3+e, i have barely bought anything aside from the campaign book and a few more, and none of my campaigns have taken place there.

This change, if it really happens, could do it for me.

 

[Athenon]

Very interesting Kheris...

 

[AdmundfortGeographer]

Living campaigns are favor of the month things - they come and go with regularity and I think it is bad decision making to mess with a campaign setting in a major way for the sake of running a Living campaign for a few years and then on to another Living campaign.

What the heck are you talking about. Living campaigns with strong support last for many years, not a few. Living Greyhawk started in 3.0 and continued through 3.5 for a total of 7 and a half years when it ends in mid 2008. Living City went even longer than that. I think you are confused with something else, maybe the D&D Campaigns model like Mark of Heroes or Green Regent or Xendrik Expeditions? Compare Living FR with Living City and Living Greyhawk.

And Eberron won't need a cataclysmic change. The extreme dispersement of the population already conforms to that major aspect of "points of light". A simple timeline advance where teritorial control by the major nations has degraded inside their borders allowing bandits or other bad guys to fill the void is all that would be needed.

 

[hong]

I'm in two minds on this issue. On the one hand, it would be cool to see what they could do, given the opportunity to give FR a total makeover. On the other hand, any makeover is unlikely to be _that_ total, since there'll still be elements that they can't drop without making it not FR anymore (fluff is much more important when you're talking about an actual setting instead of an implied one).

Also, if they _do_ make FR conform to this new points-of-light thing, it'll be playing in the same space as any new setting they might otherwise release specifically for 4E. And I'm not sure that I wouldn't much rather have a completely new setting, free of legacy issues.