poison in the forgotten realms?

[krupintupple]

That came across rather rude. I can think of several reasons why a society might outlaw poison use. Carrying a weapon or having magic does not mean you are planning on killing someone. It means you have the ability to protect yourself.

If the poison is a deadly one then the only reason you have it is to kill someone. Why else would you have it. Also a lot of people look on poison as dishonorable. Its sneaky and the person using it is not putting himself at risk say the way a person with a sword is.

And there is a lot of ways society can protect itself against magic users and weapon carriers. Weapons can be illegal to carry in the town or they have to be peace tied. Magic users may have to register and there may be penalties for using magic in the city limits.

The druid who wild shapes may be taken and executed for being a spy if caught. Sort of like in times of war a soldier caught behind enemy lines in uniform was considered different than a soldier caught out of uniform behind enemy lines. The later was often accused of being a spy and not protected under war time agreements.

my sentiments exactly.

also illegal in the campaign are things like intentionally summoning fiends, or committing crimes through magical or psionic compulsion. typically, in the larger and more civilized cities, weapons are peace-bound. likewise, the laws of the more rough and tumble orc-infested frontiers require that all able-bodied people (typically 18+) are required to train and know how to use weaponry, in defense of the kingdom, or their colonies. ie: you can get in trouble if the guard inspects you and does not find your state-appointed sword or crossbow.

however, "illegal" does not mean evil, it merely means that the laws of the land that the heroes are currently operating in have rules and strictures; it's entirely possible to break said laws, which is why i was wondering what such a penalty would be. it's never really come up, as all of the heroes so far have neither summoned devils, nor charmed someone into robbing a bank for them - hence why i was asking for people's advice. unfortunately, folks seems to love to leap and pirouette to all manner of conclusions, rather than actually addressing what i was asking about.

 

[Elf Witch]

Sorry if I came across as rude, 'twasn't my intention. Just trying to make a point in a... pointed way?

As for using poison being no risk: I can't see that, as we're probably talking about contact or injury poison here. Also, in what way IS lethal poison different from a lethal spell in the spellbook, or a lethal weapon? And what makes poison 'sneaky'?

Historically, nobles were afraid of being poisoned and outlawed poison because a) poison can be used by everybody, where social convention makes it impossible for a non-noble to wield a sword, and b) poison was cheap and easy to obtain, which wasn't true of swords.
Both don't hold true in D&D land.

Here is how poison can be used in a way that would scare people. A high enough level rogue gets a hold of an improved invisibility potion. uses his skill sneaks in to a private home pours the poison in a sleeping person bedside wine glass and then slips out and is far away when the person wakes up and drinks it.

Sure a spellcaster could cast a deadly spell but for most of them he has to be inline of sight and he has to make noise. He is more likely to get caught.

And anyone can use poison you don't have to be trained. So your wife and mistress can use it to do you in.

My point is that in civilized areas you can justify having a weapon for self protection since magic is real mages have magic available and until a spell is cast no one really knows what spell they have memorized.

But what is the justification of having a deadly poison other then to commit murder?

That is why I can see a city making it illegal to have it. Of course there are ways around it just like today maybe the poison is a naturally growing plant or in small doses it has a medicinal purpose.

But I have no problem seeing a city outlawing the sale of deadly substances.

 

[Jimlock]

[MENTION=9037]Elf Witch[/MENTION] & [MENTION=58300]krupintupple[/MENTION], you make some good points.

Still, I want to understand something.

If the party is stopped by the city guard, will they stop ONLY poisons from entering the city?

What about a spell book with a single "invisibility" in it?

 

[Empirate]

Or Knock, or Suggestion, or Blindness/Deafness, or Bestow Curse, or Flesh to Stone, or Disintegrate, or Finger of Death... I think you can see where this is going.

Personally, if I was an important person in D&D land, I'd be much more afraid of an assassin Wizard scrying me, teleporting in when I'm asleep, turning me into stone, shrinking the resulting statue, snatching it up, and teleporting out. He needs 18 seconds for that (cut that down to 6 if he has a metamagic rod of quicken), and can do whatever he likes with the me-statue after that. Poison, high level Rogue, Invisibility potion? Don't compare.

Justification for carrying deadly poison? Why, the very same Orcs that the other guy is carrying his standard issue militia Longsword for, of course!

 

[jefgorbach]

Actually I would suspect many (most?) settlements would be similar to our own, with the expectation MOST people simply have no need to carry offensive weapons of any sort within the community because the city guard is paid/expected to handle any trouble.
Therefore ALL offensive weapons/etc are closely monitored, requiring both an ownership and carry permits for anything capable of doing more than # damage (For instance, Ohio allows anyone to carry upto a 2" long blade without a concealed-carry permit.) or perhaps require such items be stored at government authorized facilities to limit violence within their community; especially by non-residents.

Simple ownership/carry violations would incur a monetary fine likely equal to twice the permit costs and possible confiscation of the discovered weapons after a set number of repetitions.

Wilder frontier communities likely increase the damage capability limit, but are also far more stringent upon enforcement to minimize potential trouble.

 

[krupintupple]

@Elf Witch & @krupintupple , you make some good points.

Still, I want to understand something.

If the party is stopped by the city guard, will they stop ONLY poisons from entering the city?

What about a spell book with a single "invisibility" in it?

assuming they could even read it, i'd say not. invisibility could be used for many things, whereas 'demonic summoning' or the like could not. i haven't specifically codified all of the laws for each and every area, but for the most part, things like people smuggling, inciting revolution against the local government, theft and banditry and poison are what they're on the lookout for. for instance, if they're at war with a neighbouring state, perhaps they'll confiscate said coinage at the gates. likewise, if the city is in the midst of a religious schism, maybe certain texts are banned, and denounced as "heretical works."

maybe after a really bad (or strange) incident in the past, all illusion magics are banned. all things considered, how viable would such a prohibition be? not overly effective. obviously, people would still smuggle them in, some guards would think it a stupid law and silently not enforce it, while others would just teleport such magic in. but once in a rare while, you'd find someone who publicly and openly disregarded the laws, and would get caught. this is where my post comes in, as i attempted to guestimate appropriate punishments based upon violating laws in a fictitious pseudo medieval-fantastical world.

however, i have no interest in debating this further - such things can be spoken about in another thread that is more related to the topic you're interested in. i'd simply like to wonder what the penalties, fines and censures that may be applied to a person in violation of such laws.

 

[Elf Witch]

[MENTION=9037]Elf Witch[/MENTION] & [MENTION=58300]krupintupple[/MENTION], you make some good points.

Still, I want to understand something.

If the party is stopped by the city guard, will they stop ONLY poisons from entering the city?

What about a spell book with a single "invisibility" in it?

In my game there is one city that makes visiting wizards turn their spell books and spell component pouches into the local law until they leave, clerics must turn in their holy symbols unless they are clerics of Mordren.

I have another city run by mages where only city guardsmen can carry weapons. All visiting wizards and sorcerers must register with the local guild and are told what spells are legal to cast. Getting caught with poison is very bad in most of the world if the poison sole use is to kill.

And they have special spell enforcers who can track down the caster of spells. They are the spell police.

 

[Elf Witch]

Or Knock, or Suggestion, or Blindness/Deafness, or Bestow Curse, or Flesh to Stone, or Disintegrate, or Finger of Death... I think you can see where this is going.

Personally, if I was an important person in D&D land, I'd be much more afraid of an assassin Wizard scrying me, teleporting in when I'm asleep, turning me into stone, shrinking the resulting statue, snatching it up, and teleporting out. He needs 18 seconds for that (cut that down to 6 if he has a metamagic rod of quicken), and can do whatever he likes with the me-statue after that. Poison, high level Rogue, Invisibility potion? Don't compare.

Justification for carrying deadly poison? Why, the very same Orcs that the other guy is carrying his standard issue militia Longsword for, of course!

I guess it depends on how you view things and run your world.

In my homebrew there is a difference between killing in self defense and cold blooded murder. Also there is no such thing as a totally evil race. Goblins, orcs, kobolds come in a variety of alignments and kobolds are a player race. So saying you are carrying poison to kill orcs would get you thrown in jail.

Also in my world magic is very low level so you don't find a lot of mages running around with high level spells like finger of death.

Look I am not saying that it is wrong to allow poisons in your game world and even have it acceptable. I am just saying that it is not so far fetched that some societies would ban it.

I could see a society that has a strict code of honor banning poison use as cowardly.

 

[Havoc123456]

hey all,

in my campaign, poison is an illegal substance. if you don't like this, don't reply.

however, a new player is completely hell-bent on getting his hands on some poison and not using any finesse about it, even though the other PCs have suggested he be a little more careful about such a thing. if he should he get caught, what's the penalty? imprisonment? being run out of town? branded?

i guess it depends on how your society views poisons. I would almost treat it like drugs in our society. depending on the amount you are caught with, how powerful it is, and how many offenses you have had already, it could be anywhere from a fine to many years in prison. Maybe if this person gets caught with poison in certain places, the punishment could be the death penalty. i would say for this particular instance, if the player gets caught (which sounds like it is almost certain that he is) then i would go for a anything between a hefty fine and a few days/weeks in jail.

 

[Trance-Zg]

Here is how poison can be used in a way that would scare people. A high enough level rogue gets a hold of an improved invisibility potion. uses his skill sneaks in to a private home pours the poison in a sleeping person bedside wine glass and then slips out and is far away when the person wakes up and drinks it.

Sure a spellcaster could cast a deadly spell but for most of them he has to be inline of sight and he has to make noise. He is more likely to get caught.

And anyone can use poison you don't have to be trained. So your wife and mistress can use it to do you in.

My point is that in civilized areas you can justify having a weapon for self protection since magic is real mages have magic available and until a spell is cast no one really knows what spell they have memorized.

But what is the justification of having a deadly poison other then to commit murder?

That is why I can see a city making it illegal to have it. Of course there are ways around it just like today maybe the poison is a naturally growing plant or in small doses it has a medicinal purpose.

But I have no problem seeing a city outlawing the sale of deadly substances.

He would only need "regular" invisibility for that, as he is not attacking anyone directly

on topic, I agree about poisons being illegal as there is no reasonable explanation to use it defensively. With poison you are bent on murdering someone.

Maybe only if you have rule the poisoned weapons glow green and you must have it visible so everyone can expect it from you.(like certain states in USA, you can pack a piston but it must visible to all.)