Politics: All in your head

[Umbran]

The US doesn't have much actual practice in arguing and debate. This is why so many flame wars start and most arguments quickly degenerate into name calling and logical fallacies.

I don't think this is a particularly American thing, though. Keeping a discussion to logic and reason is not common, largely because humans, the world around, tend to respond to emotional arguments.

Emotions are important, and we do need to listen to them. We are capable of telling them to shut up and sit down, though, and ought ot do so far more frequently. Our emotions are tuned for, "Oh crap! Jaguar!" not for planning several years of economic development.

 

[Ryujin]

This study seems to suffer from a bit of "The chicken and the egg" syndrome.

 

[Umbran]

This study seems to suffer from a bit of "The chicken and the egg" syndrome.

Well, the article, as stated, notes correlation, but doesn't really go into causation - are people Conservative because they have strong Disgust reactions, or do people have strong Disgust reactions because they are Conservative?

I'll note that "Conservative" is a human semantic construct, but our emotions are not. Disgust should then probably come first.

Now, the real question - are such people Conservative because Disgust drives them to it naturally, or because spin-doctors have hooked them together? The emotion of disgust may be innate to people, but exactly what elicits the response can be learned. It has been noted that spin doctors have harnessed the power of Fear. It would not be odd to consider that they've harnessed Disgust as well. Basically, when you are bombarded with messages that you shouldn't like certain things, you learn to feel disgust for them, and then are driven to a party.

 

[Ryujin]

Well, the article, as stated, notes correlation, but doesn't really go into causation - are people Conservative because they have strong Disgust reactions, or do people have strong Disgust reactions because they are Conservative?

I'll note that "Conservative" is a human semantic construct, but our emotions are not. Disgust should then probably come first.

Now, the real question - are such people Conservative because Disgust drives them to it naturally, or because spin-doctors have hooked them together? The emotion of disgust may be innate to people, but exactly what elicits the response can be learned. It has been noted that spin doctors have harnessed the power of Fear. It would not be odd to consider that they've harnessed Disgust as well. Basically, when you are bombarded with messages that you shouldn't like certain things, you learn to feel disgust for them, and then are driven to a party.

Exactly; the old nature or nurture argument. That's where my "chicken or egg" comment came from. You can just bet that certain media outlets will grab onto something like this and use it to support claims, that it can't directly address.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

The major point being that humans can overcome their wiring! Behavioral superpower! Your dog can't do that, nor your cat, nor most other living things on the planet. You can.

As they say: You are the product of several billions of years of successful evolution. Act like it.

I've been covering politics for more than 20 years for my job. In all that time, the only people I've known who actually changed parties were politicians who realized they would have to in order to get elected (or re-elected, if the district changed substantially due to redistricting).

I have encountered zero people who changed political affiliation due to someone yelling at them on the Internet.

Trying to browbeat someone into seeing things your way doesn't work, whether you're screaming about Xbox vs. Playstation or Political Party A vs. Political Party B. (And the truth is that most successful politicians don't care a whit for ideology anyway; they just push the line that will work to get them elected and keep them in office.)

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

Exactly; the old nature or nurture argument. That's where my "chicken or egg" comment came from. You can just bet that certain media outlets will grab onto something like this and use it to support claims, that it can't directly address.

Look at the date: This is an old study and one of a series of them going back years. Partisan organizations don't actually like these studies, because they suggest that people don't really tend to change that much, which is of course bad for business. (There's not much point in multimillion dollar ad campaigns if the only thing that really matters is getting the people who already agree with you to just show up and vote.)

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Our emotions are tuned for, "Oh crap! Jaguar!"

Definitely. I mean, if you just look at conversational drift and..


Oh crap! Jaguar!

 

[Umbran]

I've been covering politics for more than 20 years for my job. In all that time, the only people I've known who actually changed parties were politicians who realized they would have to in order to get elected (or re-elected, if the district changed substantially due to redistricting).

I don't care if people change parties. What matters is whether they are thinking when they make individual judgments and choices.

I have encountered zero people who changed political affiliation due to someone yelling at them on the Internet.

There is no place where "yelling at people on the internet" intersects my point. Of course you can't change people's mind's that way. In fact, they tend to become more polarized by that kind of behavior - which is why political parties, who have a vested interest in you voting by party line rather than thinking, *initiate* shouting matches.

I have changed people's minds on individual topics of political import through other means.

 

[Scott DeWar]

With persistence, cunning, and cookies.

because you know, the cake is a lie.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

With persistence, cunning, and cookies.

I'm down with P.C.C.